The Persistence of Memory

[RJT]

I think memory plays a big part in one’s level of intelligence. Does it and to what degree does it and does it always?

I wonder because I think of folk who have photographic memories. I understand that not all these folk can assimilating information so well.

Is there a minimum level of intelligence one must posses to make one “smarter” if one had better memory?

I am thinking that some folk have “street smarts”, others are geniuses but have no clue to what’s what. Others are all around bright folk. How does the level of one’s memory capabilities relate to all of this? (As an aside: What other things go into the overall "smarts" of a person?)

I’ll use myself as an example. If I could remember a fraction of all that I have read or learned in life I think I would have a higher IQ. Is that true? Sometimes I’ll read something and fully understand the text. But if asked to summarize what I just read, I might have a hard time recalling enough detailed information to put together a coherent thought. But, if allowed to use the text I might be able to write a summary of equal stature as a person with a higher IQ, who didn’t need to rely on the text, would.

Also, does anything affects one’s memory - I don’t mean alcohol or things like that. I mean is the level of memory capabilities a static thing? Things like trauma would it seems - what other things do if any?

Any thoughts on this?

http://www.mystudios.com/treasure/dali/persistence.jpg

it's a crime not to have this in a thread of this title.

[RJT]

Thanks Johnny,

I am not very adept at posting pics. I read how to once, but I forgot. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

RJT

[Darryl_P]

I used to hang out with some top mathematical minds and none of them had exceptional memories. The consensus among us was that memory is not terribly important in mathematics because the thing that separates a super math brain from just a good math brain is clarity of thinking, especially in NEW situations, ie. those in which a perfect memory won't help much anyway. Very difficult math problems are not generally solved by pattern recognition. They are solved via original thinking and creativity for the most part. I have met a number of mediocre math students who didn't want to accept this, though. Psychologically it's easier to accept that your memory is not that good rather than your brain simply doesn't have enough horsepower.

The dudes I knew with outstanding memories became either lawyers, doctors or businessmen for the most part and were never terribly good at math.

[kbfc]

Awesome painting. I was in NY a few weeks ago and got a chance to see it at the MOMA. I was shocked at how tiny it actually is. I'm so used to seeing big prints.

[purnell]

As I get older I find I remember fewer details unless I really concentrate. It may be because my memory is not as powerful now, or that fewer things get past the filter between shot-term and long-term memory, because fewer things hold my interest long enough. I have lost much of my ability to remember strings of numbers (phone numbers in particular), because I never, ever practice it, letting electronic devices do it for me instead.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome painting. I was in NY a few weeks ago and got a chance to see it at the MOMA. I was shocked at how tiny it actually is. I'm so used to seeing big prints.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, as a number of his paintings are quite large.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
As I get older I find I remember fewer details unless I really concentrate. It may be because my memory is not as powerful now, or that fewer things get past the filter between shot-term and long-term memory, because fewer things hold my interest long enough. I have lost much of my ability to remember strings of numbers (phone numbers in particular), because I never, ever practice it, letting electronic devices do it for me instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't I know what you mean. So, I think I am asking why this is so. Does something cause a breakdown in memory in our brains? And if so, can something help our brains to remember more. I am thinking perhaps something chemical.

Obviously, if we knew, we would all be ingesting large quanties of the chemical. I am simply curious to what science might theorize or is working on currently regarding memory.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to hang out with some top mathematical minds and none of them had exceptional memories. The consensus among us was that memory is not terribly important in mathematics because the thing that separates a super math brain from just a good math brain is clarity of thinking, especially in NEW situations, ie. those in which a perfect memory won't help much anyway. Very difficult math problems are not generally solved by pattern recognition. They are solved via original thinking and creativity for the most part. I have met a number of mediocre math students who didn't want to accept this, though. Psychologically it's easier to accept that your memory is not that good rather than your brain simply doesn't have enough horsepower.

The dudes I knew with outstanding memories became either lawyers, doctors or businessmen for the most part and were never terribly good at math.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kind of what I am wondering. Why things like this seem to occur? I am thinking if intelligence is made up of x % logic capabilities, y % memory, z% something else, etc.

We all have different % of each item that added together equals our total intelligence. What is the best quality to have – how do they rank? David, for example, I assume would say that the logic capacity would have to be highest on the scale and that everything else is just icing on the cake (he might even say the other qualities are superfluous or even a hindrance).

What are all the qualities that go into the makeup of one’s intelligence?

[Darryl_P]

[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of what I am wondering. Why things like this seem to occur?

[/ QUOTE ]

My theory on memory is that it depends heavily on how much you pay attention to something which, in turn, depends heavily on how much you're interested in it. I am a firm believer in being able to develop memory to very high levels if you give it enough effort. Generating the motivation and interest levels is the hard part.

I think people have a way of developing the skills they need on their own, yet sometimes they aren't aware of what they need. If someone says to me "I'd love to be like this or that but I can't seem to develop the skills", my instant reaction is "I doubt it. Sure you'd like to be like that WITHOUT MAKING THE EFFORT but when you are faced with the cost-benefit analysis of effort vs. reward, you decide it's not worth it. Others who are there already have decided it IS worth it and that's the main difference."

As for what constitutes intelligence...I think that's a good philosophical question and most people (Sklansky included) will say it's whatever they happen to be good at. Personally I think intelligence is related to long-term survival prospects which includes the ability to cope with a multitude of situations we may find ourselves in. Whoever has the best future prospects given the Darwinian ebb and flow of the planet is the most intelligent IMO. Some say you can get there via logic, others via interpersonal skills, others via other means. I say we don't really know since it can't be measured accurately, but that time will tell eventually.

[RJT]

Darrly,

Your post is what I had in mind. Is your opinion based on study you have done or things you have read? I don’t need to know your resume, I am just wondering if it is a common sense approach or is there some science to suggest this, too?

Do you have any suggestions regarding exercises to strengthen one’s memory – other than repetition type practices? For example to remember how to spell a word, one would simply keep repeating the spelling until one has it down pat. I am wondering about other techniques. Or suggested reading material? Thanks.

RJT

[Darryl_P]

RJT,

I'm afraid I don't have any specific references for you since my theories are based on my own observations and experiences and not on any specific thing I read on this subject.

But I can tell you how I developed my own memory when I needed it...maybe that could be useful to you...

When I was studying to be an actuary I breezed through the first 5 exams since they were mostly math-related but I had trouble with the 6th one because it involved over 1000 pages of text which had to be memorized almost verbatim. It took me two years before I could come up with a strategy for it. First I tried just reading it 3 or 4 times over. That didn't work because it was just too boring and my brain simply didn't want to remember it. Then I tried an index card method and that failed for similar reasons. But finally I found a little trick that got me over the hurdle...

I condensed each page into a few one-line sentences of information. Usually there would be 5 to 15 per page. Then I took an important letter from a key word in each sentence to remind me of the sentence. Then I arranged these letters to make little words and then I took groups of those words and tried to make them into a story. And then I just memorized these stories.

Sometimes the words and the story were quite forced and goofy but at least I was able to memorize them this way.

I couldn't believe how much useless information I packed into my head using this technique, but it worked like a charm. Exams 6 through 10 went smoothly from that point on.

The important thing to point out, though, is that the key ingredient to all this was motivation. Something needed to be at stake. There's no way in hell I would have done all that work just for the general benefits of having a better memory. In fact, I'm not even sure if my overall memory improved from that. The only thing I gained is that I now have a trick to use in case I need to memorize a lot of material.

May I ask what your motivation is for wanting to improve your memory?

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
May I ask what your motivation is for wanting to improve your memory?

[/ QUOTE ]

The original point of my OP was basically just a thought that popped into my head. I posted it only for discussion purposes. Probably I thought of it because, and I am not sure how to put this exactly but: I think I my capacity to remember things is not on par with my level of intellect. To say it another way - for the level of my intelligence, I should be able to remember things easier than I do. (Of course, as one gets older memory is not as sharp, but that is not what I am referring to.) I often think of all the books I have read and wished I could remember more details of them.

But, now that we got into the discussion your post made me think - it would be nice to try to improve my memory if possible. Thus my follow up question to you that you just answered.

I hadn’t had this in mind at the time, but I think it would be helpful to my poker game if I can improve my memory skills. (I only started playing this year.) So for now that will be my immediate practice using the method you suggested - or perhaps a variation of it.