Party $10+1's....

[xGoreDudex]

Just curious how long it typically takes someone to be able to beat the $10+1 for the FAQ estimate of 20-25%, I have the time to study/play a lot, just wondering if theirs a specific learning curve that many of you could attest to...

I should also note here that I have not had a victory in my last 20 sit & g's...is this normal varience?
thank you

[splashpot]

One million games.

[DPCondit]

I guess it depends on what kind of poker knowledge and skills you have to begin with. I was doing that in the 5s and 10s and 20s almost immediately. When I went to the 25 + 2 turbos on Stars, I got my butt kicked for the first 3 or 4, then I became quite dominant. I am now on the 50 + 5 on Party, and 55 + 5 turbos on Stars, I didn't cash like my first 3 times, but after that I took off. I will say the 50 + 5s and the 55 + 5s are a very noticeable skill jump, but nothing I couldn't handle. I'm looking forward to the 100s and 105 turbos, after I make a few more bucks. After about 60 of the 55 + 5s, I'm up about 500 bucks, which is lower than what I think it should be, but I have been working a lot of kinks out of my game, and think it should only get better.

I realize this is a small sample, but I know when I'm outplaying, or being outplayed, I've played poker for many years. I honestly don't have any idea what my "true" ROI is, but I believe it will prove to be pretty good when I have enough games under my belt for the numbers to actually mean something.

Back to the original premise, it depends a lot on what skills you had coming in. If you are already a very good player, it should shape up pretty quickly. If you are not already a good poker player, then this forum seems to be the nuts for SNGs, so read it as much as you can, and you should get there.

[DPCondit]

[ QUOTE ]
I should also note here that I have not had a victory in my last 20 sit & g's...is this normal varience?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not. If by victory you mean cash, then you have a lot of work to do. My biggest streak without a victory is 13, and my biggest streak without a cash is 8. Don't be dismayed though, figure out what you need to improve, and improve it.

[swiftrhett]

My first 300 10's were breakeven. My next 600 were about 14% ROI, and after that it's been about 23% ROI pretty steady 8 tabling.

8 tabling is so boring now, it's hard to believe that in the beginning 4 tabling seemed like too much. I recommend that you sacrifice some early ROI to learn 8 tabling. Study ICM, K+S charts, and play the first 2 levels uber-tight. If you play 20-40 / day and study 1 hour / day, you will get there in 1000-1500 sngs.

[ QUOTE ]
My first 300 10's were breakeven. My next 600 were about 14% ROI, and after that it's been about 23% ROI pretty steady 8 tabling.

8 tabling is so boring now, it's hard to believe that in the beginning 4 tabling seemed like too much. I recommend that you sacrifice some early ROI to learn 8 tabling. Study ICM, K+S charts, and play the first 2 levels uber-tight. If you play 20-40 / day and study 1 hour / day, you will get there in 1000-1500 sngs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this is very good advice, except for the part about 8 tabling right away. First, it is unrealistic to expect someone who is just beginning to beat the 11s to have 2 2001FP's to 8 table on, and without at least 1 second screen, trying to 8 table while learning will lead to overlap hell/horrendous play. My laptop displays 4 tables with some overlap, but it is very managable, and 6 tables is right on the edge of doable with some practice, but I can't imagine what it would've been like when I was first starting out to try and play 8 tables all once on my single screen.

Also, 8 tabling right away may not only sacrifice a few points of ROI, it could very easily turn a +EV player into a very -EV very quickly, and it is hard to learn fast enough when you are losing money 8 tables at a time.

i think after my first 100 or so tournies i was up to 30% roi, which is when i felt confident i could beat it. after that it decreased slightly to 27/28 roi but im consistently beating it 5/6 tables over 500+ sngs now

my 22s however are a different story as im slightly down after 500, after starting the first 150 around 20% roi

[prunch]

just wondering for the people who posted who are multitabling the 11's, how much do they make an hour. Do you think you can make a good salary be merely multitablin the 11', roughly 8 tablin

[downtown]

After my first 200, my ROI in the 11s never again surpassed 20%.

It's not good advice for everyone, but if you're just waiting to get your ROI really high, but are beating the 11s for 10% for a while, move up instead. If I had waited to get my ROI back up to 20%, I wouldn't have moved to the 22s, where I made a lot more money. The FAQ is just a general guideline, use it as that and analyze your own game beyond generic metrics.

[ QUOTE ]

I should also note here that I have not had a victory in my last 20 sit & g's...is this normal varience?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Well, I read 2+2 and got serious about poker the past 6 months I would say, and have played about 400 $11 SNGs on party in the past month, at a 22% roi. After about 30 SNGs it is very easy to at least see and understand some of the concepts that are discussed on here, about bubble strategy and whatnot. So it didn't take very long for me, but 400 is still a pretty small sample. I am following the FAQ's advice, I am playing 500 SNGs at each level before moving up, and will only do so if I have at least a comparable roi to the ones that are listed. So read a lot before you start playing, and get a feel for how to play the bubble, that is the biggest step. Good luck.

ps - 20 sngs at the 11s without winning or without cashing? If it is without cashing, I would honestly say stop playing. If you have a good concept of how to play, that will basically not happen at the 11s.

I dont even understand this. You are saying that if you can beat the 11s at a 10% roi, then you should move up? I would disagree with that completely and I think it may have worked in your case, but I just dont understand what you even mean. The 11s are very easily beatable at a 20-25% roi in my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
just wondering for the people who posted who are multitabling the 11's, how much do they make an hour. Do you think you can make a good salary be merely multitablin the 11', roughly 8 tablin

[/ QUOTE ]

8 tabling you could make around $20-$22/HR IF you can acheive and keep 22-25% ROI over a large sample size.

The big question is about burnout. I tried 8 tabling for awhile but went back down too four because of the burnout factor.

Also it depends if you think $20-$22/HR is a decent living.

*shrugs*

Either way I guess.

[playtitleist]

[ QUOTE ]
ps - 20 sngs at the 11s without winning or without cashing? If it is without cashing, I would honestly say stop playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't take offense, but you can't known why OP would have not been cashing. OP could in fact be in a better position to go forward with poker than a player who has luck boxed his way into say a 0/0/4/16 streak. One needs to remember that luck works both ways, and OP could have very well been on his way to 0/0/4/16 himself, but got cracked on those four. Had one of those four worked out, he is okay to not quit?

While the rest of your post is helpful, suggesting somebody flat quit is not.

[prunch]

so what ROI do u think you would achieve by following Aleo Magus' sng guide to the letter, just a thought

I started playing at the $10 level and was KILLING it over about 100 games. I moved up of course.

Yes, I know I should have moved up way before then, but I wanted to make sure I could beat that level.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I started playing at the $10 level and was KILLING it over about 100 games. I moved up of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

either stop posting so much, or stop making your posts stink so much.

c

I don't understand...

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand...

[/ QUOTE ]

none of your posts at all have had any content at all. you might want to say something more than "that's good" if you're going to post in a strategy thread, for instance.

c

OK, I will try. I am new here. Please bear with me.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I will try. I am new here. Please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

will do. hence the post.

c

Im not saying he should quit forever, but he needs to do some serious studying and reading before playing again. 20 in a row without cashing at the 11s is pretty extreme in my opinion. I just think studying instead of playing would help.

My worst run at the $10 level is not winning 5 in a row. That sucked. I was outdrawn a lot. I cannot imagine not winning 20 in a row...I hope never to find out. So long as I do not tilt, I don't think I will.

[tigerite]

Your posts get more ridiculous by the minute, please go away.

Why are you being rude to me? I am giving my opinions...

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont even understand this. You are saying that if you can beat the 11s at a 10% roi, then you should move up? I would disagree with that completely and I think it may have worked in your case, but I just dont understand what you even mean. The 11s are very easily beatable at a 20-25% roi in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is what I am saying, in a hypothetical.

Let's say I beat my first 200 11s for 25%.

After that say I was breakeven for 200, so I'm at 12.5%.

Then let's say I beat them again over the next 200, but only for 15%, and my overall ROI is now around 14% or whatever, I am not doing the math here.

Well, now I'm rolled for the 22s, so why don't I just move up and see if I can win at the 22s? I'm not going to mess around at the 11s for the rest of my life, I have a pretty good idea that I'm a winning player.

I am not posting my numbers for anyone to see, or for a backer, I'll take a stab because I now have an amount that I'm comfortable playing 22s with.

---

What's my ROI for the 11s right now? Who knows? I will never know what my max ROI will be at the 11s, 22s, 33s or 55s, because I'm not sticking around those levels to find out. I'm interested in making money, not killing the 22s or assuring myself I met the FAQ's ROI guide or whatever.