Another live DS hand.

[thabadguy]

Villain is one of the tightest players on the table, is pretty aggresive, and I have bluffed him outta couple big ones.5/10 20 to open.
This hand took place before the other one.
Villain has about 4k, i have about 5.5k.
He raises UTG to 80, i have AKh, i call.
normally I would reraise this, but against villains range of hands, Akh is most def a dog, or we both have the same hand, plus im getting no respect, so if he moves in with something like JJ, i cant call.
Flop is 73Kr 1 heart, he pots, i call.
Turn is 5h.
He pots it again, I raise to 1200, he calls.
River is A, he moves in, I fold.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I really don't like the turn raise. What were you putting him on? You're not getting him to laydown AA(I'm assuming this given your likely table image) or KK and you're not worried about QQ catching up.
So, in the eventuality that he has AA or KK I would just call looking for the flush. The raise might commit him in case you hit your flush, but it doesn't seem to be worth it if that's all the raise accomplishes. Meanwhile, he's going to have trouble believing you have a flush since it was backdoor.
I call and look to play a small pot so my river decision isn't too hard if I miss the flush.
River fold is fine-you chop at best.

[flawless_victory]

turn raise seems pretty bad.

[okayplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
turn raise seems pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

just call it down. dont raise turn.

[arod15]

I really dont like your PF play. If you think your behind just fold there. By not reraising PF you gain no information and it makes it harder to put villian on a range throughout the hand. It appears as if you try to compensate your PF error by reraisng the turn which was also a mistake. Just call down there given your line. But PF i think if you can't reraise him given his your read , your better of just folding....

[thabadguy]

wow, i knew you were an idiot, but this big of an idiot?
Jeez

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, i knew you were an idiot, but this big of an idiot?
Jeez

[/ QUOTE ]
he is pretty stupid.
generally we have an unspoken code around here... we just kinda ignore him... its more polite than, well, you know...

[JKratzer]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is one of the tightest players on the table, is pretty aggresive

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should raise flop, and if you get called/reraised basically plan on folding. You say he has big pair/AK so if he's going to fold his pair he'll do it on the flop. That keeps it cheap when you're behind. If he calls/reraises he has AA/KK/AK, right? With his given range I think you can safely fold turn to a pot-sized bet as I assume you're drawing to 9 outs at best. I'm curious as to why people are saying call the turn. I agree it's better than raising, but is everyone really giving villian credit for firing a second barrell here with QQ or is there something else I'm missing? I don't think the times when villian has AK and you split are worth the call, especially with another round of betting. I guess I'm just weak-tight, but I would like to hear an explanation for calling, as well as a plan for non-heart rivers.

JKratzer

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, i knew you were an idiot, but this big of an idiot?
Jeez

[/ QUOTE ]

who are you talking about?

[Ulysses]

As others have mentioned, why not just call the turn?

[technologic]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, i knew you were an idiot, but this big of an idiot?
Jeez

[/ QUOTE ]

can't we all be friends

[thabadguy]

Yes, i know, that wouldve been the correct move.

[mikech]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is one of the tightest players on the table, is pretty aggresive, and I have bluffed him outta couple big ones.5/10 20 to open.
This hand took place before the other one.
Villain has about 4k, i have about 5.5k.
He raises UTG to 80, i have AKh, i call.
normally I would reraise this, but against villains range of hands, Akh is most def a dog, or we both have the same hand, plus im getting no respect, so if he moves in with something like JJ, i cant call.
Flop is 73Kr 1 heart, he pots, i call.
Turn is 5h.
He pots it again, I raise to 1200, he calls.
River is A, he moves in, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
hey tbg,

others have questioned the turn raise, i'm wondering why you basically minraised? by my math pot is 525 on the turn, so he pots it and you made it 675 on top? a call would be fine, but if you want to raise then just move in, you'd probably push him off AA.

[kagame]

raising the turn has the nice effect of allowing you to lose less on the river a certain % of the time...

also, did you show those earlier bluffs? if villain holds QQ maybe he doesnt fold here invariably

[thabadguy]

I dont think he folds AA given my image, i realize the turn raise was a mistake, the only advantage being, that he is committed to pay me off if i hit my flush.
It was not a good move.
There is no way he has QQ on river, at best it is a chop, most likely not, he flips over AA, KK way too often for a river call to be profitable.

[durrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think he folds AA given my image.

[/ QUOTE ]


You have one hell of an image.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think he folds AA given my image.

[/ QUOTE ]


You have one hell of an image.

[/ QUOTE ]
did you ever see the thread entitled "beating up on weaktight nits"
really sick.

[durrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think he folds AA given my image.

[/ QUOTE ]


You have one hell of an image.

[/ QUOTE ]
did you ever see the thread entitled "beating up on weaktight nits"
really sick.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yea i remember that one, and im not arguing w/ thabadguy- if he says so im sure villain will call w/ AA here most of the time. Moreso im just remarking how amazing it is that his image is that good.

Out of curiousity TBG; do you think you stack villain if the river is a K? also were you checking behind this river? (i cant imagine that... although it seems you should vs his range).

[thabadguy]

If he checks river, I think i check behind.
He isnt calling a value bet on river with QQ.

[durrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
If he checks river, I think i check behind.
He isnt calling a value bet on river with QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree w/ the check behind- however then i really hate the turn raise (along w/ every1 else...) I think a flop raise is much better, although w/ your descriptions of villain, and how he views you, I'd call flop, call turn, decide river. Wouldnt checking behind top 2 here kind of kill your LAG image?

[punter11235]

I like preflop call.
I like flop call too.
I prefer calling the turn as I dont see which worse hands call this raise.
I would fold the river after actions in the hand.

call/call/call/fold as one of 2+2'ers mentioned recently I am weak-tight /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Best wishes

[thabadguy]

I agree that the turn raise was awful, i was getting paid off a lot, also i was a lil intoxicated+ i had my gf sitting next to me...not a very good combo. If i check behind top 2 there, then ppl will not try to set a trap for me, hence making my life a lil easier.

Does villain do this every time with AK? With AA? With KK? If so:

Combos of AK: 4
Combos of AA: 1
Combos of KK: 1

Equity = (4 * .5)/6 = 1/3.

Unless I made a stupid mistake somewhere or he plays this way less frequently with AK than with AA and KK, you're getting better than 2:1 and should call.

Also, doesn't villain frequently push your turn raise with KK?