Failing to control the pot size. Did I make that mistake here?

I said I would post something worth while, this isn't it but it is something other than a post trying to recruit players.

This game was $2/5 blind 5 handed at the time. I was on the button with $2700 or so. The only other good player was UTG with $1500 or so. He was a good player that would open almost every pot but played well on the flop.

UTG opened the pot for $20 as expected I looked down at 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif now I know the majority of you are going to say fold. Yes this is a clear fold most of the time. Here is my thinking. He has been picking up a lot of pots un-contested or with a big bet on the flop if someone called. I haven't been in a hand for some time. I think I can re-steal here and if I get called and hit my hand he won't see it and I may get him to bluff the flop. If he re-raises me I can get away from the hand for $70.

I raised the pot to $70 and he hesitated for a second and called (it looked like call or fold not call or raise hesitation). The flop came down 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif . He led out with $100.

What do I do?

I'll post my thoughts shortly.

[Nemmy]

Unless your opponent has a deuce and a 4, or pocket 4s, you have the best hand. You also are drawing to an open-ended straight flush draw. I'd ram and jam in this situation. On the flop, you are virtually unbeatable. The turn and river would most likely either improve you, give your opponents a hand that can't beat yours, or help neither of you. And if the A/images/graemlins/club.gif or 6/images/graemlins/club.gif comes, it's nirvana!

[TheRempel]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless your opponent has a deuce and a 4, or pocket 4s, you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless he has a 2 with any other card. There is no chance you have the best hand right now if your opponent also has a 2.

I would still push here though.

[joewatch]

You are getting just the right implied odds for a call here (2-fives, A /images/graemlins/club.gif and 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif), but I would give it up on the turn if I didn't make my draw.

I was going to post the results of the hand but I think I may just kill myself.

I just got done pushing $800+ into a pot where I thought I had the nut straight and nut hand. Only to find out that I had the nut straight wrap. Word is 6,7,8,10 dosen't make a straight on a K,9,5,4 board.

Don't play big bet poker when you need sleep no matter how good the game is. Thats the only thing I came away with tonight.

Side note: There is a $2-5 PLO game at Wynn, it's a good game lots of action. If your lucky you may get doubled up by some idiot that cant read his own hand.

[LA_Price]

i'm almost certain you have the best hand but I would call as i feel raising lets all of the worse hands he's betting off the hook. Feel's like he has AAxx and didn't wan't to reraise out of position as you both had big stacks. You have position so why not use it and try to outplay him on the later streets.

[TheRempel]

The only issue I have with calling here is that he may slow down on the turn if he has absolutely nothing. I could easily see a solid player doing with with AAxx hoping you are overplaying KK or possible QQ. If you raise, you may be able to stack him if he has a far weaker hand than yours and can't get off his read.

[bugstud]

you, imo, just call here and see if you can hit. I probably don't raise w/o the SF though.

LA Price is on the exact same line of thinking as me. It felt like AAxx but I think this guy could have a bunch of other hands here too.

I decided to just call and see how the hand developed. I felt like he would fire at the turn when just about any card hit.

The turn was the 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif. He checked to me. The pot stood at $350.

What is my play here? It's not the worst card in the deck but it's not the one I was looking for.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
LA Price is on the exact same line of thinking as me. It felt like AAxx but I think this guy could have a bunch of other hands here too.

I decided to just call and see how the hand developed. I felt like he would fire at the turn when just about any card hit.

The turn was the 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif. He checked to me. The pot stood at $350.

What is my play here? It's not the worst card in the deck but it's not the one I was looking for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm checking behind to induce. Too bad I was at magoo, and not donking everything off in this game

[LA_Price]

Maybe it's just me but I'd bet half the pot on that turn card. If he check raises well you have to play poker then and decide if you have implied odds to hit or if you have the best hand. Those who say check I disagree with. People don't bluff alot on paired boards in spots like this.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just me but I'd bet half the pot on that turn card. If he check raises well you have to play poker then and decide if you have implied odds to hit or if you have the best hand. Those who say check I disagree with. People don't bluff alot on paired boards in spots like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

if this was the guy I was playing with the night before, he is very very capable of c/r'ing pot here with better and worse hands.

[neuroman]

I'm with Rempel on this one. Raise the flop. If he misreads you, or if he has AAxx or KKxx suited to clubs, you might be able to get it all in while you (almost certainly) have a significant advantage.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unless your opponent has a deuce and a 4, or pocket 4s, you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless he has a 2 with any other card. There is no chance you have the best hand right now if your opponent also has a 2.

I would still push here though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why everyone wants to shovel in $1500 against a v aggro but good postflop player.

[TheRempel]

I think it is far more deceptive to raise than to call her. It seems far more likely to me that the villain is betting out with something like a good overpair + flush draw or overpair+straight draw and that he is likely to go with you here if you raise it up.

The stacks are very deep so I can also see just calling the flop. That is not a great turn card though.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is far more deceptive to raise than to call her. It seems far more likely to me that the villain is betting out with something like a good overpair + flush draw or overpair+straight draw and that he is likely to go with you here if you raise it up.

The stacks are very deep so I can also see just calling the flop. That is not a great turn card though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think kyle saw me play multiple hands vs the guy, but he at least to me seemed really willing to play huge pots on the flop (no suprises there) but play turn/river a lot less aggro than his almost maniacal preflop/flop play.

[TheRempel]

If I was playing the hand and this was the case, I would surely raise the flop then. You are a favorite over 95% of his holdings.

[Tilt]

I think people are being too reckless with this hand and 300BB+ stacks.

Call the flop. Let him bluff away at a blank turn. If it blanks and he checks, you bet.

Check behind the turn. Snap off his bluff on the river, if he checks again make a value bet.

I don't see you getting paid here by hands you beat unless you let him lead at the pot. The price you pay for drawing the bluff is risking that he hits a two outer on the river.
I think most importantly though you don't want end up playing a huge pot with the 8 high flush on a paired board.

FWIW, I like the preflop play here alot. If you show this hand you will slow him down alot.

[chessforlife]

[ QUOTE ]
I think people are being too reckless with this hand and 300BB+ stacks.

Call the flop. Let him bluff away at a blank turn. If it blanks and he checks, you bet.

Check behind the turn. Snap off his bluff on the river, if he checks again make a value bet.

I don't see you getting paid here by hands you beat unless you let him lead at the pot. The price you pay for drawing the bluff is risking that he hits a two outer on the river.
I think most importantly though you don't want end up playing a huge pot with the 8 high flush on a paired board.

FWIW, I like the preflop play here alot. If you show this hand you will slow him down alot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]

If you show this hand you will slow him down alot.

[/ QUOTE ]

only part about the advice that was way wrong /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TheRempel]

He is far more likely to be semibluffing than straight up bluffing here. Yeah, the stacks are big, but I winning the pot on the flop here is good, and like I posted previously, he is going to have difficulty giving you credit for a two, let alone the strength of your draw.