coltrane
11-05-2005, 12:44 PM
observed this last night....
2/5 NL at MGM
it's heads-up on the river, board is 55TKJ
Player One (P1) checks, Player Two (P2) bets $50, P1 very softly says "raise" (dealer hears him but doesn't announce "Raise" and it was said so softly that nobody else at the table except his immediate neighbor hears it) and puts out the $50 first, then goes back to his stack and comes forward with his $100 raise....
problem is, P2 (who is on the other side of the table) doesn't realize there's been a raise, he just thinks his bet's been called....so P2 turns his AQ face up and throws it forward (thinking he's showing the hand down)....dealer (who seemed very aloof/apathetic about his job anyway) thinks that P2 is folding face up since he didn't call the raise - so dealer mucks his hand and awards the pot to P1....P1 mucks his cards face down (we never saw them, but they were retrievable).....
needless to say, P2 immediately goes into a frenzy - wondering what the hell is going on.....floor is called....they were very wishy washy and didn't seem to know what to do and they basically said that the pot has to be awarded to P1 because his raise was legal and P2 never called it.....P2 of course countered by saying he had no idea there was a raise because the dealer didn't announce it and also P1 went forward with the "call" portion first so that's why he turned his cards face up.....floor then said it's the player's responsibility to know all the action - not the dealer's....then the floor puts P1 on the spot by asking if he'd be willing to split the pot with P2....P1 declines, saying he did nothing wrong.....
maybe there's a technical solution here, that's why I'm posting this....but IMHO, I thought it was an awful scene by the floor....they came over, didn't take charge of the situation, put a player on the spot, and really neither player did anything wrong.....I personally think the dealer has to take some responsibility and so does the house....after all, that's why we're sitting there INSIDE the MGM and paying THEM rake - so that they take care of the "running of the game".....in the event that they screw up (which I think they did), I think they should be accountable....I think they should've let P1 keep the whole pot and given P2 the equal amount of the pot out of the house money....is that ever done?.....in this case, it wasn't more than a few hundred dollars anyway - which is pennies to the MGM.....or, at the very least, they should've ruled that it was P2's intention to call any raise, and then they could've retrieved P1's mucked cards and just given the pot to the winning hand (which obviously would've been P2 because if P1 had a full house he would've just said so and shown his cards - but he didn't).....
thoughts?....
2/5 NL at MGM
it's heads-up on the river, board is 55TKJ
Player One (P1) checks, Player Two (P2) bets $50, P1 very softly says "raise" (dealer hears him but doesn't announce "Raise" and it was said so softly that nobody else at the table except his immediate neighbor hears it) and puts out the $50 first, then goes back to his stack and comes forward with his $100 raise....
problem is, P2 (who is on the other side of the table) doesn't realize there's been a raise, he just thinks his bet's been called....so P2 turns his AQ face up and throws it forward (thinking he's showing the hand down)....dealer (who seemed very aloof/apathetic about his job anyway) thinks that P2 is folding face up since he didn't call the raise - so dealer mucks his hand and awards the pot to P1....P1 mucks his cards face down (we never saw them, but they were retrievable).....
needless to say, P2 immediately goes into a frenzy - wondering what the hell is going on.....floor is called....they were very wishy washy and didn't seem to know what to do and they basically said that the pot has to be awarded to P1 because his raise was legal and P2 never called it.....P2 of course countered by saying he had no idea there was a raise because the dealer didn't announce it and also P1 went forward with the "call" portion first so that's why he turned his cards face up.....floor then said it's the player's responsibility to know all the action - not the dealer's....then the floor puts P1 on the spot by asking if he'd be willing to split the pot with P2....P1 declines, saying he did nothing wrong.....
maybe there's a technical solution here, that's why I'm posting this....but IMHO, I thought it was an awful scene by the floor....they came over, didn't take charge of the situation, put a player on the spot, and really neither player did anything wrong.....I personally think the dealer has to take some responsibility and so does the house....after all, that's why we're sitting there INSIDE the MGM and paying THEM rake - so that they take care of the "running of the game".....in the event that they screw up (which I think they did), I think they should be accountable....I think they should've let P1 keep the whole pot and given P2 the equal amount of the pot out of the house money....is that ever done?.....in this case, it wasn't more than a few hundred dollars anyway - which is pennies to the MGM.....or, at the very least, they should've ruled that it was P2's intention to call any raise, and then they could've retrieved P1's mucked cards and just given the pot to the winning hand (which obviously would've been P2 because if P1 had a full house he would've just said so and shown his cards - but he didn't).....
thoughts?....