A8s 20-40 hand

[mike l.]

im 2 off the button 8 handed 20-40 okay game. i limp w/ Ah8h after one limper on my immediate right who is a very good player. he maybe limps a little too much w/ stupid hands in mp and lp. he does not have AJo i just wanted to make that clear from the start, not because i saw his hand at any point, but just because he would raise w/ that. we do not play very tight down here. anyways a tighter gal in the sb also pretty strong/tight raises both our asses and the bb loose fool calls. 4 of us see a flop.

the flop is AJ5 all spades. checked to solid on my right who bets, i raise, sb calls two cold, bb folds, solid guy calls.

the turn is a dreamy 8d. checked to me and i bet, they both call.

the river is 3h. sb bets, solid dude calls. wtf?? what's my play? how'd i play it so far?

[Manzanita]

mike,

I think that you played this hand well and should call on the end. My guess is that SB has either AK or AQ, but she could also have AJ. I think that you are ahead of the very good player who probably has 2-pair (i.e., A5s). But he could also have a couple of mediocre spades, something like 76s, which is another good reason to just call here.

-- Manzanita

[Dante]

I would venture that you did not win this pot - you say the SB is tight. She called two bets cold on the flop (after checking), called a turn bet, and led out on the river. My immediate thought was that stinks of slowplaying a big hand (AA, JJ, nut flush). At the same time, she may have had KKs, AKs, AQs and after missing the draw led on the river to try and push out an Ace (in the case of KK) or two pair, if she believes you both to be solid players without a flush.

I think you are in 2nd or 3rd place, but your call closes the action and you're getting 12-1 to call (4 BB preflop, 3 on the flop, 3 on the turn , plus 2 on the river).

Dante

[rtrombone]

This is a great hand.

I would've played it pretty much the same way you did. I would have checked the turn if an 8 or ace hadn't come. If the SB is the good player you perceive her to be, I'm more worried about her cold call than if she had 3-bet.

You didn't list her possible raising hands, pre-flop. If she's good, she has to have some pretty damn good cards to raise from the absolute worst position possible. She's played the hand like she has K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif ; the only reason I don't put her on this is that it's not strong enough to raise from the small blind (unless she has absolutely no respect for your and the other limper's play).

Most people would've 3-bet the flop with JJ or AA; maybe she's just being super careful? Any halfway decent player would have 3-bet or bet the flop with an ace and the K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif , right?

I don't think the SB is betting a marginal hand here. She's betting into two of you. This is a bet for value; she thinks she has the winner. She's played it somewhat weak tight unless she has exactly K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif , but I still think she's got at least a set.

If I haven't seen her make any strange river bets and am playing well, I lay this one down. Most of the time, I make the crying call.

[Lee Jones]

I got a feeling that SB showed you a small flush. He didn't want to go to war earlier with a non-nut hand (or maybe did have the nuts and wanted company). But he gets to the river, decides (or had already decided) to stop playing cute and bets the best hand.

Solid has a moderately good ace, doesn't know quite what's going on, but figures he needs to see the showdown.

I suspect you came in second. I'd call in a nanosecond if it were heads-up. Though normally I'd say "solid" in the middle should give you pause about calling, I think he doesn't count. You're in second or first place - given that, I guess you have to call. But SB is representing a hand that beats yours.

Regards, Lee

[Dante]

unless I mis-read the post, she didn't 3bet preflop, just raise (2bets). The MP limped, the poster limped, she raised in SB and BB and the limpers call....

Dante

[Vehn]

I got a feeling that SB showed you a small flush. He didn't want to go to war earlier with a non-nut hand (or maybe did have the nuts and wanted company). But he gets to the river, decides (or had already decided) to stop playing cute and bets the best hand.

How can "a tighter gal in the sb also pretty strong/tight" who raised preflop against 2 mid limpers have a small flush? The more I think about it the more I think the SB has the nutty nuts with KQs or KJs and is trying to rope people in on the flop and turn but wants to make damn sure she picks up a bet or two on the river. There's a slight chance she has something like AK or AQ with no spades though but that would be a pretty funky way to play it. I dunno what MP has, but I think your hand is good like 30% of the time in this situation so worth a call.

[rtrombone]

[Ulysses]

Against average opponents, I'd raise again on the river.

Against a strong/tight SB PFR who played the hand in this manner, I'd just call and expect to lose.

I think you played it fine, but sb showed you either AA or KsQs for the win.

Not sure about solid guy, but I'm sure you're ahead of him. I'd guess he has either AT or A3s.

[elysium]

hi mike
the SB slowed AJ. this removes the aces from the deck, but the MP has Axs and picked up two pair. you have him beat, but not her. time to bring out the kleenex.

[skp]

Raise if you can safely fold to a 3 bet (which should be the case against most opponents).

I think that sb would have decloaked on the turn if she had the flush. She may have played Ak that way to ensure that the coast was clear on the river i.e. no 4th spade. On teh other hand, when dude to yourright calls, it's pretty clear that he has an Ace so weare running out of Aces pretty quick. On second thought, perhaps calling is better.

...nah...raise

[skp]

While certainly possible, the sb is nuts to play AJ this slowly. She should definitely checkraise Mike on the turn if she has AJ. She has to put the dude in the middle in a pickle if he has a mediocre spade to hit. If he has the King of Spades, he will call but that's okay too...sb will then be charging him double to get there.

[andyfox]

Call and hope sb didn't read Dynasty's recent post where the winner scooped in 9 big bets. wtf indeed.

[Rick Nebiolo]

mike,

when you limp after a single limper with only two playes behind you (plus the blinds) with a hand such as A8s you want the original limper to be a weak player. don't tangle with the "very good player" without more of a hand.

getting late here on East coast where I'm visiting my parents and trying to get decent software to get around AOLf. need to get off and do some installs but will try to write more later.

~ rick

[mike l.]

results of the post and the hand.

first the post: "wtf indeed."

as soon as i typed "wtf?" i knew andy fox would somehow mention that in his post. made me smile.

now the hand: really felt myself looking for the muck on the river but couldnt seem to find it. sb showed KsQs. guy on my right didnt show. A9 or something im guessing.

[elysium]

hi mike
listen to rick.

[woodman]

crack their monkey asses........she got a big A without a spade and no telling what he has, either way more times than not if one of them has u beat w/out spades they won't reraise. Me personally i could laydown the river to a 3 bet to most people.

[mike l.]

"need to get off and do some installs"

very good rick. go get off, and then do those installs.

good point btw re: A8s. damn i suck lately.