Pre-flop Decision after Multiple Limpers

I have been reading these pages for almost a year (and they have been very valuable), read much of the FAQ and more, and a number of the popular books (Harrington's, TPFAP) and was looking for more discussion regarding playing preflop after a couple of limpers (all too common situation in low-limit MTT's).

Assuming you are not short-stacked or big-stacked but have 15 - 20 times the BB, a typical table with a couple loose players and only a few aggressive players, what do you raise with(and how much)/limp with/fold in the following situations?

-Middle position, two limpers
-Late position, three to four limpers
-SB/BB three to four limpers

My general strategy has been to consistently raise with the premium pairs (AA - QQ), call with middle pocket pairs (JJ - 99), raise with AK, call with AQ and typically fold almost everything else.

Suggestions?

Many of the above sources have detailed advice when your first in the pot but not nearly as much when there are multiple limpers (besides tighten up). My question is am I too tight? Should I raise more often (like with the middle pocket pairs, high suited connectors)? The problem is with a pre-flop raise with a non-premium hand which gets a couple calls, the size of the pot is so big that it begs for additional aggression but you could be losing a significant portion of your stack on a mediocre hand in order to find out where you are post-flop.

Thanks for any comments and if there is already a good discussion of this somewhere else that I have missed I would appreciate a link or search term (or book name).

I think it depends a lot on who the limpers are. I love to attack limpers, so I take detailed notes about what kinds of hands people limp, how much it takes to get a fold from them, how they respond to a continuation bet, etc.

The loosest people limp any two suited cards, any two connected cards, any A, and sometimes random other hands like K9, Q8, etc. Generally these players liberally call raises and play poorly after the flop as well. If you get the opportunity to isolate them with a hand like KJ or AJ (which could mean that there are other limpers but you think the others will fold to your raise), go for it. You should usually continuation bet in this spot no matter what, since it is so unlikely that the board hit the limper, but if he calls, you're usually done with the hand if you don't improve to better than top pair. Sometimes you end up giving free cards to a flush draw or folding to a river bluff from a busted draw, but on the whole, this is a profitable situation. It's a move best made in position. I like to be on the button or the CO, very rarely will I do this from the blinds. Also, suited are better than non-suited cards for this purpose, since your flop bet will usually allow you to see the river for free.

Some players limp weak to medium strength A's in any position, even on the button. Assuming I can get heads up with them, I'll raise these guys if I've got AT+, maybe even A9s, and position. I'll raise AJ+ from the blinds against them. When you hit top pair, you've got to value bet against these guys all the way. They will usually call down aces and a worse kicker, and if there aren't a lot of scary cards on the board, they'll even call down if they just paired their kicker. This also means you can't continuation bet very effectively against them. Usually, they only have three outs against you, so you don't have to worry too much about giving a free card, but they are not going to call a bet unless they've paired their kicker, and then there is no getting rid of them. I'd rather take a cheap showdown.

This all assumes you have a good read on one particularly loose player and you think you can isolate him (which requires having good enough reads on the other limpers to know they'll fold).

If you don't think you'll be able to isolate a weak player in position, then you should throw away hands like AT and AJ that don't play well in multi-way pots. I'd still raise AQ, but I don't hate calling with it either, as long as you don't fall in love with top pair. If I'm not already on the button, I like a small raise with AQ to buy the button, if I know I can't thin the field.

You can limp behind with other hands that do play well in multi-way pots, such as small pairs, suited connectors, and suited A's. Don't play your draw aggressively, just check and call if you have the right odds and it isn't going to cost you too much of your stack- you'll often get paid off even when it's obvious that you hit, so no need to semi-bluff for deception.

If you've got an especially strong draw, like an open-ended straight flush draw or top pair and a flush draw, you can make a small, pot-building bet. It's especially nice to do this when you have the nut flush draw, because the donkeys limping any two suited will find themselves drawing virtually dead to a worse flush, and if you both hit, mmmmmm buddy.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful response. Couple of questions:

How much do you bet to thin the field? I find that 3x the BB is not enough. Pot size?
Do you only raise with non-premium in late position or do you also do it in middle position?
If I am called by multiple limpers (3 or more) and an Ace comes on flop, I don't bother with a continuation bet unless I can beat it. I am much more likely to continuation bet if flop comes with one high card which is not an Ace.
How much does a call behind after your preflop raise slow you down?
I give significant respect to any reraise preflop and only call if decent pot odds.

Thoughts?

Good questions. I'll throw in my $.02, but hopefully someone more experienced will toss in some thoughts as well.

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Very helpful response. Couple of questions:

How much do you bet to thin the field? I find that 3x the BB is not enough. Pot size?

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This is why you have to take good notes. Some players will always call a 3x raise, will fold to 4x if everyone else has folded, and will always fold to 5x. Others will call almost no matter what (obviously wait for premium hands against these guys). You should choose the size of your raise based on who has limped and what you want them to do.

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Do you only raise with non-premium in late position or do you also do it in middle position?

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The better my position is, the more willing I am to raise. It also depends on who is acting behind me. If a frisky player is on the button, I'm a lot less likely to raise.

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If I am called by multiple limpers (3 or more) and an Ace comes on flop, I don't bother with a continuation bet unless I can beat it. I am much more likely to continuation bet if flop comes with one high card which is not an Ace.


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You generally should not continuation bet into a field of three donkeys. If they called pre-flop with garbage, they are probably not all suddenly going to decide their garbage is garbage. I don't bet unless I get a piece of the flop. Even if it's just middle pair, I'll bet to thin the field if it's checked to me, but I'm not counting on taking it down right there.

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How much does a call behind after your preflop raise slow you down?

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Usually a lot. Even calling stations, I've found, tend to want a better hand to call a raise if they haven't limped than if they have. In other words, a guy who would limp J7s UTG and call a 4x raise will fold the same J7s if he's on the button and there is a raise in front of him. If the limpers fold and I'm heads up with the guy, I'll usually continuation bet, but sometimes I'll even check-call top pair, if I think it's a Way Ahead/Way Behind situation. Generally, I give a lot of respect to these kinds of calls, and I don't want to play a big pot out of position.

One exception: I tend to play my draws strongly in this situation

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I give significant respect to any reraise preflop and only call if decent pot odds.

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As you should. The exception is when the re-raise comes from a middle position limper. This is usually a medium pair, so you may have to call with something like AJ.