My last NL post for a while

[tpir90036]

I clearly don't get this game. There is just something in my brain that doesn't click no matter how much I think that it's staring to.

A hand from this afternoon: 5/10 NL. Player who could be really good but brings his C game way too often opens to $40 in MP. I call in the SB with 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Super clown calls in the BB. Effective stacks of $900.

Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
I check, BB checks, MP bets $100, I fold, BB folds. MP shows 88. I tell my neighbor what I had for some reason and he tells the rest of the table for some reason. They laugh. I rack up and leave because I think eating sushi and taking a nap would be a better use of my afternoon.

Thanks to everyone for responding to my crappy posts in this forum. Here is on more for old times sake! Hopefully I will be back someday... but I think I belong in a limit game where I can play like a passive moron and have it just cost me a few bets here and there.

Take care,
tpir

[Allinlife]

run away from your problems

bet the flop

[flawless_victory]

your play is fine.

[Big_Jim]

A little weak-tight, but not too bad.

Either lead the flop, or check/raise and put no more money in the pot, if you want a chance to win it.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
run away from your problems

bet the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
why? i am announcing almost exactly what my hand is. is a worse hand calling? is a better hand folding? someone with any two cards could raise and i have to fold.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
why? i am announcing almost exactly what my hand is

[/ QUOTE ]

Lead more flops.

[Yeti]

[ QUOTE ]

why? i am announcing almost exactly what my hand is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you do this with tons of other holdings.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
is a better hand folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but lots of hands with 6 outs will.

[Indiana]

I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?

Indy

[psuasskicker]

I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?

lol...

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?


[/ QUOTE ]

OK, you've convinced me, buy kkf's db.


Tpir - it just takes time to adjust, keep playing. Listen to flawless, yeti, et al

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?

lol...

[/ QUOTE ]

yea. laugh at him. thats wonderful. idiot.

Joey, its a different game in some ways but the same in others. sure the average bet is way bigger but people tend to make bigger mistakes in the long run.

if you stick with it, and dont get down on yoruself, im sure you'll be a good nl player.

Barron

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no great cash game player

[/ QUOTE ]
hmmmm
[ QUOTE ]
but how about a fold preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
ahhhh ok i see thats why.

[tdarko]

don't let one hand get you down (especially one thats not completely terrible).

according to your standards i would have quit 4 years ago /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Yeti]

[ QUOTE ]

yea. laugh at him. thats wonderful. idiot.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't even a fold in a tournament.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]
Given that I am probably getting outplayed every time I am in this spot I don't think this is out of the question.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

yea. laugh at him. thats wonderful. idiot.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't even a fold in a tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

fine. but why not explain to him that its not a fold. not laugh at him when he's down on himself. thats what makes that poster an idiot.

Barron

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
not laugh at him when he's down on himself

[/ QUOTE ]
huh? wasn't he laughing at indiana?

[psuasskicker]

What the hell, am I actually supposed to be putting insightful and meaningful responses behind first day poker 101 questions in a mid-high forum? I would expect a question about folding PF in a low stakes forum, but why should I type out why folding a mid-pp for a 3x raise with 22.5x behind it is a mistake here?

I suppose you've NEVER given a short, contrite response to such types of questions before?

huh? wasn't he laughing at indiana?

In case it wasn't clear, yes I was laughing at indiana's question (not at indiana himself). Laughing at tpir would be stupid and hypocritical as if I and every other poker player hadn't been where he's at right now at some point in our playing "careers".

- C -

[Indiana]

I'm not advocating a fold preflop for every player. Just, perhaps, for this guy. If hitting a set is the only way that you continue on here then you don't have the post flop balls to be getting into heads up pots with 99 for a $40 call before the flop right?

Indy

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
check/raise and put no more money in the pot, if you want a chance to win it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't dislike this idea.... but what happened to pot control? Unloading money OOP with a fairly weak hand does not feel right. In fact, none of my options feel right here... which is why I defaulted to pussy-ville.

[Indiana]

I'm only gonna say this one more time: fold preflop. When this guy comes in before the flop you have to think that he may have a higher pair than u. Thus, you can (in good conscience) continue on with a set. 7/8 times u miss a set and lose around 250 or so. That one time that u do hit your set do you get a 250 profit from this guy? If he's good then he will prolly pay you at most 250 when u hit.

Indy

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no great cash game player but how about a fold preflop?

lol...

[/ QUOTE ]
COME ON.

hes alreeady said he only plays tournament poker where the stacks are short and there is no such thing as "no set, no bet"

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, none of my options feel right here... which is why I defaulted to pussy-ville.

[/ QUOTE ]
obviously your instincts were off so i think you did the right thing, get up grab a bite to eat, get a nap and refresh.

sometimes its just not working for ya. come back later when you feel better about the situation. many top players have said that they can tell you when they are going to lose before they ever do b/c its a feel thing. get your mind right and go back and play your A game.

[psuasskicker]

hes alreeady said he only plays tournament poker where the stacks are short and there is no such thing as "no set, no bet"

Sorry, I don't read every single post that goes on this board...I didn't know.

If it makes anyone feel any better, change my "lol" to "no". Not trying to hurt feelings, but it was a funny question in a mid-high stakes forum.

- C -

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm only gonna say this one more time: fold preflop. When this guy comes in before the flop you have to think that he may have a higher pair than u. Thus, you can (in good conscience) continue on with a set. 7/8 times u miss a set and lose around 250 or so. That one time that u do hit your set do you get a 250 profit from this guy? If he's good then he will prolly pay you at most 250 when u hit.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]
Why am I losing $250? The raise pre-flop was to $40 and everyone has almost $1000 behind. Please stop hijacking my piss and moan thread /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Yeti]

$35 x 7.

[tdarko]

$245

i win!

[Indiana]

Why is everybody laughing at me? This is a full table right??? Ok, so a guy (EP?) raises 4 times the BB and you want this guy to invest a couple hundred bucks just to feel around and see if this guy maybe,sorta, perhaps just has two overcards? Its no great play to call here, just do the math. I'm not saying its wrong, but this pot is not multiway and there's no guarantee that you make anything even if u do hit. Am I missing something here? We all have mental blocks on stuff. Help a brother out.

Indy

[dmk]

wtf, are you still in MD? where the hell are you playing a live 5/10 game in the afternoon? or are you up in AC for the weekend? (if you even remember me, we played in a 1/2PL game together for a while like 2 years ago)

like others said, you simply need to be leading the flop more often if betting out is giving away your hand here.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everybody laughing at me? This is a full table right??? Ok, so a guy (EP?) raises 4 times the BB and you want this guy to invest a couple hundred bucks just to feel around and see if this guy maybe,sorta, perhaps just has two overcards? Its no great play to call here, just do the math. I'm not saying its wrong, but this pot is not multiway and there's no guarantee that you make anything even if u do hit. Am I missing something here? We all have mental blocks on stuff. Help a brother out.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

theyre laughing because you want to fold 99 for a 4xBB raise from MP pre-flop ....are you regularly folding 99 pre-flop? TT?

[Indiana]

No I don't regularly fold 99 but if I know its gonna be shorthanded and this guy could very well have me beat, I call knowing that the call is not huge EV over the long run. TT is my breaking point here where I think it starts to become clearer. I think one thing i must be missing is that this isn't a full 9 player game right?

Indy

[turnipmonster]

why would it being shorthanded and a heads up pot make it more likely you're beat?

as for folding preflop, the guy opened for 40. in the 5/10 games I play, even the fishiest players do this with regularity with a wide range of hands, especially shorthanded. raising approximately the size of the pot, even preflop, is a fairly common bet in NL games played with cash money.

--turnipmonster

[Indiana]

Fewer players certaintly increases the strength of 99. Isn't this obvious. For example, 99 is almost certain to be best heads up in this situation but prolly not in a full table under these conditions.

Indy

[Big_Jim]

Of course, the problem with the c/r here is that it is basically a bluff, and there is no way to get to showdown with the best hand (vs. any thnking opponent anyway)

However, if PFR is very likely to fire out a continuation bet, this move works often enough that it is definately +EV. Of course this is an "any two card" kind of play.

Also, when you check/fold for the rest of the hand, it gives you good Shania for future flop check/raises.

[fuego527]

Indiana,

There are 2 possibilities here. Either, your opponents are super bad and an open raise from MP is top 5 hands, or your opponents are somewhat decent and they could be raising any pp, any high cards, any suited connectors, any single or double gapped suited cards, basically a wide range of hands.

Situation #1: This is an easy call. If your opponents are this bad just calling for set value is EV+. If they are bad but on the tight side, this is also clearly exploitable for EV.

Situation #2: This is also a call. This is most likely a value call. If you don't want to call because you are uncomfortable in this spot, perhaps you should move down in stakes until you are comfortable doing so.

[turnipmonster]

I do know this, hence my confusion at your remark:

"No I don't regularly fold 99 but if I know its gonna be shorthanded "

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Fewer players certaintly increases the strength of 99. Isn't this obvious. For example, 99 is almost certain to be best heads up in this situation but prolly not in a full table under these conditions.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponents ever figure out that you are folding a hand as good as 99 here you are going to get abused.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the problem with the c/r here is that it is basically a bluff, and there is no way to get to showdown with the best hand (vs. any thnking opponent anyway)

However, if PFR is very likely to fire out a continuation bet, this move works often enough that it is definately +EV. Of course this is an "any two card" kind of play.

Also, when you check/fold for the rest of the hand, it gives you good Shania for future flop check/raises.

[/ QUOTE ]
The bottom line and the thing that I need to work on is that lately I am afraid of getting raised. There, I said it. I like being the one driving the betting and forcing the decisions... and when people put me to a decision.... well, then I have a chance to screw something up and get outplayed one way or the other. I guess part of this comes from running bad and making the "wrong" decisions even though they may be good in the long run. And now I am all backwards.

Maybe I will pound down a few gin and tonics before I play to get over this fear that has popped up. Nothing like treating one vice with another /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-tpir

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

yea. laugh at him. thats wonderful. idiot.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't even a fold in a tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

fine. but why not explain to him that its not a fold. not laugh at him when he's down on himself. thats what makes that poster an idiot.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon Barron. This is the mid-high stakes forum. Anyone who says "consider a fold preflop" really should not be offering his 2 cents on any hand. Not trying to be a dick, but you know it's true.
-James

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
They laugh

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not the reason to be sad or feel bad about your game. Most people suck badly at poker if they laugh at your play its not that bad... sometimes is even a reason to be happy /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[IRV]

Reraise pre, lead flop, go from there.
or..
Go down in limits......

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise pre, lead flop, go from there.
or..
Go down in limits......


[/ QUOTE ]
This hand has nothing to do with limits... i am not afraid of losing money.... I am afraid of playing hands badly. Given my read I would have played it the same at $0.02/$0.04 NL. Not saying that my read was right obviously, but limits were of no concern here.

Also keep in mind that this 5/10 live plays like NL 25 on Party.

[ QUOTE ]

Also keep in mind that this 5/10 live plays like NL 25 on Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this, I would not fold on the flop.