Baltimore MD Cardroom Busted

[Georgia Avenue]

LINK TO STORY (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-te.md.poker04nov04,0,937134.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines)

This was a very on-the-level and honest place. According to players that were there, the police were not kidding around: dogs, screaming, guns drawn, etc. Wih all the problems that Baltimore City faces, isn't it sick that the suits, (not the cops, who probably don't give a damn) get to pretend like they are making some progress by busting a bunch of retired old guys? Unlike in New York, it IS illegal to even play poker, and now 100 people are facing a year in jail. If you want to help please write to these people:

Sheila Pratt Dixon's (City Council President) Chief of Staff

btripps@baltimorecitycouncil.com

For the gov, you gotta go here: http://www.gov.state.md.us/mail/

Mayor of Baltimore:

mayor@baltimorecity.gov

President of MD General Assembly:

Thomas_V_Mike_Miller@senate.state.md.us

Say whatever you want, but you could copy and paste this if you want:

To Whom It May Concern,

I am disturbed to hear about the recent criminal investigation of certain members of your community for playing poker. Poker is a game of skill that encourages camaraderie and fair social interaction and is far better for society than any sort of organized gambling, including horse racing and playing the lottery! Don’t the police in our district have better and more serious things to do than disturb your constituents having some utterly harmless fun? They are wasting time and our tax dollars. I and my friends will continue to demand that the laws of this state be changed to reflect the modern and up-to-date attitude adopted by California, Florida, and other forward-thinking legislatures: LEGALIZE POKER NOW!
Thank you for your consideration,

Yournamehere.

[drewjustdrew]

I think that is bad idea to include Florida as a forward thinking state. Other than poker, I would think most consider florida a little behind the times.

Maybe you should launch an investigation into the politicians (local and national) that play poker underground and indicate that Ms. Dixon may not want to be responsible for the outcome of said investigation.

[tpir90036]

Well, I have talked to three different people who were at the club when the bust occurred. And none of their stories match the frenzy and terror that I just read about in your post and in that article. There were cash games going on that weren't even shut down!

Also, your little diatribe about poker is absurd. If you want it to be leaglized, that's all well and good, but your argument that it is "far better for society" doesn't hold much water.

Anyway, if some genius didn't put an ad in the paper advertising the tournament maybe this would not have happened. Either that or the illegal booze... which is probably what got vice interested in the first place.

Take care,
tpir

[Georgia Avenue]

Fair enough. Some responses:

1. My diatribe is hyperbole meant to get through to politicians who know nothing about poker, not make accurate statements. It is (sorta) what I believe, but I would expect someone who wants to help to write their own letter if they felt like it. If they don't they could copy mine.

2. I was just going by the article and things I've heard second hand. If it was a nice quiet blitzkrieg, I guess I have no point... /images/graemlins/grin.gif Though if the cash games continued, I'll eat my hat with 4 sticks of butter.

3. The attitude that "they got what they deserved" for advertising a game is what really makes me mad. This is exactly what lawmakers want you to think about absurd and punitive laws that exist only to give politicians scapegoats. They SHOULD NOT have to be sneaky. The law should be changed and poker should be legal. They will never change the laws unless more incidents like this occur, more upstanding members of society get busted, and more regular people tell the lawmakers/law enforcement that they think the whole thing is stupid. It will certainly take more than that, but it won’t happen at all if people continue to hide poker clubs away and try to appease whatever arbitrary loophole they think will keep the police out of their joint. The fact is, the Liquor Board/cops would have (and have in the past) busted 1. Dry game 2. Games without a rake 3. Games in people’s homes. So the policy of silence and keeping your head down doesn’t work. It just makes unjust laws continue. [/little diatribe #2]

I've already heard back from the Mayor's Office. Please, even if you don't agree with anything I've said, write SOMETHING to one of these addresses today. Thanks.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what lawmakers want you to think about absurd and punitive laws that exist only to give politicians scapegoats. They SHOULD NOT have to be sneaky. The law should be changed and poker should be legal.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not disagreeing with this. But poker at the moment is not legal... and just because people think it should be does not excuse them from being punished if the law is broken. Same goes with liquor laws. The reasons behind them might be crooked, but that doesn't mean you can serve booze to anyone you feel like and not expect the vice squad to show up.

And I will double-check with my friends... but it was my understanding that the tournament was shut down but the people playing cash games were left alone. I know that cash on the people involved was not taken which usually happens at these raids.

[lefty rosen]

Dude the game was run for profit, I have no problem with the police raiding these games. What was the owner doing with his monthly profit? He certainly wasn't declaring it as income. Now if this was a non raked home game I would agree with your stance.......

[Crveballin]

Well I am sure it all didnt go to the warehouse but Baltimore could use some refurbishing and taking over a run down warehouse almost sounds like a good idea rake and all.

[Indiana]

This is very strange. I have gotten written confirmation from the Indy PD that poker games won't get broken up around here. I even play with cops at the illegal poker joint around the corner. Baltimore is a very very dangerous city, busting up poker houses is ridiculous.

Indy

[lefty rosen]

On the surface it seems rediculous,but these games can be unsafe for the players and the owners can be mob connected. These games aren't friendly social games like the owners pretend it is. If the games were they wouldn't rake them......

[Nepa]

I feel lucky, I was staying at a hotel just a few blocks from where this bust took place and would of been there if I know about the club.

I didn't realize that playing cards was a crime in Maryland. I read that the players face a 1200 dollar fine and or one year in Jail.

[Nepa]

[ QUOTE ]
Baltimore is a very very dangerous city, busting up poker houses is ridiculous.


[/ QUOTE ]

Some places in town are dangerous but I believe this happened down in the Interhabor which is pretty safe.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
but your argument that it is "far better for society" doesn't hold much water.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? In a society that calls itself free, the burden is on government to prove that something is harmful in order to prohibit it.

But getting back to the more practical...

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, if some genius didn't put an ad in the paper advertising the tournament maybe this would not have happened. Either that or the illegal booze... which is probably what got vice interested in the first place.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that is bad idea to include Florida as a forward thinking state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Washington state seems to have a much better model for cardrooms.

Regardless, it is better as a first step to legalize betting and wagers between individuals.

The fact that you can go to Pimlico and wager, or buy a lottery ticket, but nickel-dime home games and office pools are illegal makes the law an ass.

[slamdunkpro]

All the games were shut down and the club was closed.

[lefty rosen]

Does the racing industry(which is a strong lobby group within the state) want competition? I can't see them wanting legal poker in the state unless they can have games on site. How many bad poker players in other jurisdictions could have been bad horse bettors if poker weren't legal through card halls or casinos?

[Python49]

didnt realize so many md 2+2'ers

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the racing industry(which is a strong lobby group within the state) want competition? I can't see them wanting legal poker in the state unless they can have games on site. How many bad poker players in other jurisdictions could have been bad horse bettors if poker weren't legal through card halls or casinos?

[/ QUOTE ]

True enough, Lefty. But that strength is questionable. Governor Ehrlich has been pressing for leaglizing slot machines, partially to aid state horse racing, and can't get it through the legislature.

Poker might be more palatable. Canterbury in Minnesota is a good example. Through the first three months of 2005 the racing handle was $13.7M and the card room brought in an extra $4.5M. Link to Canterbury SEC filing (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/050516/ecp10-q.html).

Plus, unlike slots, which are available in WV and DE (and soon to be PA) MD would have th epoker market to themselves.

Doubtful this will happen, though. The slots debate has been painful enough, and despite the boom in poker's popularity, slots would bring in far more revenue.

[dmk]

[ QUOTE ]
didnt realize so many md 2+2'ers

[/ QUOTE ]

there aren't

[toby]

and none of us have Neteller /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ZeusXIX]

this was no nice area

[miami32]

lol and it sucks too...

All this reminds me of why I left Maryland 8 yrs ago /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AlphaMeridian]

Is it sad that this is one of the things I'm looking forward to when I transfer colleges? Well, Netteller and possibly a legal cardroom near whereever it is I live.

Anyway, more generally, you'd have to be an idiot to play in such a tournament. I mean, there's legal, there's home-game illegal, and there's blatently stupid illegal. Baltimore has a number of games that I can think of off the top of my head, but they all rake. That's a no go, and thinking about it, it's an easy political win for the Mayor of Baltimore. He gets to enforce laws already on the books, expose 'illegal gaming' and "clean the city" all in one fell swoop.

On a more political note, I think it's really absurd that Ehrlich can't get slots passed. Or at least, I think it's absurd that my county (Prince Geroges County) won't vote for it since we need something to bring business into the county.

-Alpha

[Georgia Avenue]

Update to this story...

The charges against the players were all dismissed due to police error. They could be recharged but for some reason the police decided they had better things to do. This is good for the players, but bad for Maryland, since a few respectable citizens going to jail over some Bulls**t might encourage a change in poker laws...It's odd that the police made the same error on every single citation also, almost like they did it on purpose? Paranoia: yes.

There's a letter to the editor about the situation in this weeks Baltimore City Paper if you wanna Take A Look... (http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=11129) .

[StevieG]

Thanks for the link. Heyneman's letter to the editor is pretty good.

[VinnyTheFish]

I can not wait to visit! I will feel so much safer walking downs the street knowing that illegal poker will not be tolerated!

What the heck, I may even raise a family there!

I would have been there had I been in town that night, lucky for me I changed my flight and got back on Thru.
I went up THru. morning and to my surprize the lot was empty
two regular standing outside told me they just found out the joint got shut down.

This really sucks, this was the only reason I was coming to the area, to play in this game. They police really [censored] me on this one. There are plenty of games the area but none got the amount of bad players this place got, real shame.

[tpir90036]

I thought it was fairly obvious that they made the "mistake" on purpose because they wanted to shut the game down with as little hassle as possible for the people involved. Lots of good PR and no paperwork or time wasted in court. Everyone wins.... well, except for the people who want to play cards /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Georgia Avenue]

I don't know how I missed this, but another club was raided in Bmore last weekend.

Story here (bmore sun) (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.bust12nov12,1,6696186.story?coll=bal-local-headlines) (Sorry you have to register)

No advertisments for this low stakes cash game. Very small club, two or three tables.

Once again the players, including an off-duty cop, WILL be charged. No "accidents" this time. This was very small time, private club, very friendly and not shady at all...I mean: "Police seized $4,600." Dude!

Apparently this was an "internal affairs" investigation of a cop who was "invloved in high stakes gambling..." How many policemen play in homegames...are they gonna bust them too? It just doesn't add up.

I'm sorry to keep bumping this thread, but I just can't stand the fact that innocent people are being prosecuted for this very wack law...(not to mention that it easily have been me.../images/graemlins/ooo.gif) Are home games next? Aiyaaahahh!

[zipo]

The criminals running this game and the vermin who participated in it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, preferably invoking provisions of the Patriot Act.

Time to add another wing to Gitmo.

[tjh]

Funny thread.

Just to point out to folks that poker and some other forms of gambling are not illegal because they are morally wrong or cause society harm. Although that may or may not be the case.

Gambling, cock fights, and the like are illegal because people make money at these activities. Uncle Sam considers a substantial part of your money as HIS money. Gambling/poker is illegal because it is hard for Uncle Sam to get his share of the money that changes hands.

Of course this is a simplification of the issue but just in case some have not considered the reasons for laws against poker.

--
tjh

[satelliter]

Don't know where to start. Paying taxes has nothing to do with this. Casinos pay taxes. All cash businesses pay taxes. If they skim they're subject to the same law as anyone else. Don't know about Baltimore, but in Manhattan, New York the clubs do have "friendly social games." Very few people I know have room for a ten person table in their apartment, not to mention 5 tables for a fun tournament. This is where the clubs come in, and like any leisure activity, hope to make a profit.

[arod15]

Dam they are coming down everywhere now. it is dam near impossible to find a game now. I think the places should grease the cops. Although i suppose the time charge would be like double what it is. I dont know this sucks....

[StevieG]

Maryland also makes it illegal to buy alcohol on a Sunday. Do you suppose this is becaue they believe record keeping is not possible on that day of the week?

Sometimes laws really are on the books for reasons of "public morality," and not because of some state revenue agenda.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Maryland also makes it illegal to buy alcohol on a Sunday. Do you suppose this is becaue they believe record keeping is not possible on that day of the week?

Sometimes laws really are on the books for reasons of "public morality," and not because of some state revenue agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon the hijack, but, in states that don't allow liquor sales on Sunday, often the liquor store owners are the biggest supporters of these laws. The laws allow liquor store owners to take a day off, and give their employees a day off, without worrying about losing sales to their competitors. Of coursce, it also keeps the religious folks happy.

[joecacti]

On some Sundays in Baltimore, some liquor stores are open. And I'd like to play a $50 NL game in or around Baltimore, PM me if you know something... Almost ventured out to that Harford Road place... But mdpoker.com or whatever must be compromised now... I bet the message boards over there are hoppin!

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
On some Sundays in Baltimore, some liquor stores are open. And I'd like to play a $50 NL game in or around Baltimore, PM me if you know something... Almost ventured out to that Harford Road place... But mdpoker.com or whatever must be compromised now... I bet the message boards over there are hoppin!

[/ QUOTE ]

Md-poker is not compromised, it's only for home games...there are no messages about illegal clubs, and the admin is pretty tight about security, but yeah, I think you could say the fur is flyin about this issue. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif