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Scotch78
11-03-2005, 10:32 PM
MP2 is 21/7/1.5 over about 175 hands with a WSD of just 20%. The SB is 51/0/<1 with a 40% WSD over about 120 hands.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (7.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Scott
hobbsmann
11-03-2005, 10:36 PM
raise the flop.
since you didn't, raise the turn.
the river call is fine.
Nick C
11-03-2005, 10:45 PM
I want to raise the turn in this hand, although I admit that getting 3-bet wouldn't be much fun.

On the river, I would call. I think it's a bad sign that Villain is betting into a PFR on that board, but I do still think he could have a worse two pair. I think he'll frequently have a jack though (QJ and JT are two possibilities), so I don't want to raise.
lighterjobs
11-03-2005, 10:52 PM
what makes you think mp2 has the Jack?

unless he has KJ i think i would raise the river.
Scotch78
11-03-2005, 11:08 PM
On the turn/river my concern is not whether I'm ahead of MP2, but whether he will call a raise (especially) on the river if he is beat.

Scott
McGahee
11-03-2005, 11:27 PM
Just raise somewhere. Anywhere. Please.
El Tigre
11-03-2005, 11:31 PM
One thing about raising is, are you folding to a 3-bet. This is a major factor in whether to raise. I think it will be tough to fold to a 3-bet as there is a bunch of money in the pot. On the other hand a 3-bet means you are almost surely beat. I think that the ideal line is raise/fold??????? i really dont know. I would probably pussy out and call
A_C_Slater
11-03-2005, 11:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Just raise somewhere. Anywhere. Please.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why? To knock out the call station?To get 3bet by the TAG? Let SB stay in. His overcalls will make up for a missed called raise if we're ahead of the TAG on the turn.
McGahee
11-04-2005, 12:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just raise somewhere. Anywhere. Please.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why? To knock out the call station?To get 3bet by the TAG? Let SB stay in. His overcalls will make up for a missed called raise if we're ahead of the TAG on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he was actually a "tag" he wouldn't open limp PF from MP with hands that beat us on this board. Given his 20% WSD I don't see him bet/folding very often either.
A calling station will call 2 cold with a pair + gutshot (ie KT) usually.
Sorry if I sounded like a prick. I'm drunk &amp; on tilt.
hobbsmann
11-04-2005, 01:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
One thing about raising is, are you folding to a 3-bet. This is a major factor in whether to raise. I think it will be tough to fold to a 3-bet as there is a bunch of money in the pot. On the other hand a 3-bet means you are almost surely beat. I think that the ideal line is raise/fold??????? i really dont know. I would probably pussy out and call

[/ QUOTE ]
folding to a 3-bet sucks as we still have a gutshot and possible other two/trips cards to improve our hand. The real question is IF 3-bet do we fold the river for one bet UI. Given MP1's stats folding to a bet on the river is probably best, but I would find it difficult in a large pot to fold TPTK.
BigBrother
11-04-2005, 02:30 AM
MP looks weak/tight enough that raising the flop for a free card looks viable to me.

SB is LP enough that I think a turn-raise is profitable, and while I don't like being 3-bet I still call and evaluate the river.

The way it played out it is very hard to know where you stand on the river. I think it's probably -EV to raise this weak-tighty who may even fold 2-pair since your raise represents the J.

I think just calling the river is OK. I think never raising before the river is not OK.