PDA

View Full Version : Think I messed this one up...

deception5
11-03-2005, 10:24 PM
Villian is 37/10/2.6, wtsd 27.84 won at showdown 54.9 over 1400 hands.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero ...
Danenania
11-03-2005, 10:29 PM
Call down unless a J hits.
luckyharr
11-03-2005, 10:54 PM
What do you think his range is preflop? From that range, what hands can you eliminate after his turn check-raise?

I'd call down.
adamstewart
11-03-2005, 11:03 PM
3-bet the turn.


There's only one other Jack left in the deck!! Chances are, villain doesn't have it.

Sure, there's a chance he has AA or KK, but with a 10% PFR he has a much greater range than that. He could just as easily have AK or AQ, or AT ... remember, this guy is *aggressive*.

We have trips here. I'm not convinced it's time to slow down yet.


Adam
Lmn55d
11-03-2005, 11:25 PM
call down for sure bro. A 10 pfr's 3betting range from the sb isn't too large. If he has AK and wants to get frisky, he'd often do it on the flop to minimize losses against a J. The K on the turn doesn't really change anything for him. This could easily be AJ, KK or AA. You're not gonna be ahead enough to raise especially because you're not folding to a cap. You are definitely not a 2:1 favorite over his range as you'd need to be to 3bet. Plus AQ and AT split with another ace so an observant player with those hands would definitely not want to give you the chance to go 3 bets on the turn seeing as his best case scenario is a split.
nubs
11-04-2005, 12:13 AM
Is QJo a winner from UTG? Can anyone with a big database answer this please.
jdl22
11-04-2005, 01:30 AM
Fold preflop.

Since we're here I think you have to call down.

I would put him on AA,KK,AK,AQ and maybe AJ given the action so far. Your hand doesn't do well against that group but you've got to call down. If he checks the river I would probably bet/call.
jdl22
11-04-2005, 01:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the turn.


There's only one other Jack left in the deck!! Chances are, villain doesn't have it.

Sure, there's a chance he has AA or KK, but with a 10% PFR he has a much greater range than that. He could just as easily have AK or AQ, or AT ... remember, this guy is *aggressive*.


[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on a nonstat read but I think this is too broad. Sure villain is way too loose overall but I can't see him 3 betting an UTG raise with AT and only raising 10% of his hands.

As I said in the post above, I would guess given the action he would have AA,KK,AK,AQ and possibly AJ. I don't think AJ is that likely either because again I can't see a guy 3 betting in this situation and only putting in 10% pfr.

One thing I like about your post is that the villain here is quite aggressive. He's loose preflop and still has a 2.6 post flop aggression. That could open his range up a bit but surely he wouldn't check-raise the turn with nines or tens?
deception5
11-04-2005, 08:37 AM
Thanks for the responses all. My thought was that I should have just called down too. There aren't too many hands this guy 3-bets preflop let alone from the SB against an UTG raise. When he check/raises me on the turn I think I'm up against AK/AA/KK. But I think AK is less likely to check/raise here so it should be discounted where AA/KK will likely check/raise every time. QQ would probably check/call hoping to improve. There is the possibility of A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif or some AJ variant but I think with AJ he's more likely to just call preflop and possibly AQ as well.
Digs
11-04-2005, 09:00 AM
I like call down.

I bet the river sometimes too.
deception5
11-04-2005, 11:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I like call down.

I bet the river sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet/fold or bet/call?

I was thinking check/call because there's a good chance villian value bets AK if I check but just calls if I bet. A full house will almost definitely be raised.
Digs
11-04-2005, 03:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold or bet/call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agianst the players I'm betting the river agianst it's bet call.

I think this hand is a calldown though fwiw.
11-04-2005, 04:57 PM
Grunching:

If villiain likes his hand that much and is that aggressive post-flop, just call the flop then raise the turn. That will look donkish, and you can get 3-bet by a wider range of hands there. Call the 3-bet then call the river if he bets or bet if checked to. If you make your gutshot, raise the river, of course.

I might even raise the river for value, but I don't like being 3-bet there. I'd have to do the math to see if the extra BB is worth getting 3-bet by AJ, KJ, AA, KK.

Edit: To answer how it was actually played, just call down and raise a J or T on the river.
11-04-2005, 05:06 PM
Ok, I did the math. If the villiain's 3-bet on the button range was as wide as ours, raising the river is about EV neutral. But since he is only a 10% PFR, he probably has a narrower range of 3-bet hands, which makes raising the river -EV. Just call a bet or bet if checked to.
adamstewart
11-04-2005, 07:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]



Wrong
josh1122
11-04-2005, 09:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]



Wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Opening QJo six handed is standard? What about KTo, A9o, and A6s?
luckyharr
11-04-2005, 09:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]



Wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Opening QJo six handed is standard? What about KTo, A9o, and A6s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Add 55 with the above and you have all my game dependent hands for a UTG raise.
adamstewart
11-04-2005, 10:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]



Wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Opening QJo six handed is standard? What about KTo, A9o, and A6s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Add 55 with the above and you have all my game dependent hands for a UTG raise.

[/ QUOTE ]


QTo is a standard open-raise for me 6-handed, even UTG. Hell, I open-raise QTo from UTG about 90% of the time, and JTo about 50% of the time.

KTo, for sure, I open raise UTG.

A9o, I don't though. I need ATo to open from UTG (raising, of course).

A,Xs is really game/opponent/situation dependent for me. A7s is usually as low as I like to go UTG, but even that's not 100% of the time.



Adam