hand vs. Angelina

[DcifrThs]

for those that dont know Angelina is an excellent shorthanded player. he (im still assuming this), is great and destoys the paradise 40 game. he is also one of those slovenian players (from ljubljana)

im playing with him 5 handed b/c there are 2 great fishies to my right.

the player in between us is too tight for the shorthanded game (and likely because he has Angelina to his left).

folded to me and i open 87ss on the button. angelina calls in the bb after the sb folds.

flop comes down Ad9s2d. angelina check and calls my bet.

turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet.

the river is a 7. angelina checks. your action?

Barron

[Sykes]

Check behind hoping that pair of 7s with 8 kicker is good?

I really can't see a fold by any hand that beats you.

Also, I think this is why you raised the turn.

[Dominic]

I like a bet here...it may chase out a 9. Checking behind is a little weak. If he raises you, I think it's safe to fold, as you've been leading the action throughout.

But then, I suck at SH play. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flawless_victory]

seems like a pretty clear check unless you two have been really going at it recently... then you may have a very thin value bet.

[charlieD]

a bet will not get angelina to lay down a better hand here, because he does call alot of river bets with very little.
i'd check because i would hate to be check raised here

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]

i'd check because i would hate to be check raised here

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a stupid reason..
getting checkraised here is ok because youll NEVER have the best hand, and you wont have to show down your ugly hand that you were pounding with.

[etizzle]

i check this one. I can't see him laying down a 9.

[mikelow]

perhaps he/she is bisexual /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Have to follow through with this bluff. Showing this hand down is a give-up play.

Maybe you should go to Ljubljana and meet these players. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i'd check because i would hate to be check raised here

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a stupid reason..
getting checkraised here is ok because youll NEVER have the best hand, and you wont have to show down your ugly hand that you were pounding with.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much short-handed poker have you played with good players? I haven't played a lot, but in my short experience, river bluffs are not unusual.

I like a check, but concede that I may not extract max value in short-handed games. If you do bet, it's for value.

-eric

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps he/she is bisexual /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Have to follow through with this bluff. Showing this hand down is a give-up play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so, but is it really a give-up play when the person is never folding an A let alone a 9

[catlover]

Check and hope you're good.

When you bet and get called, I think you are beat at least half the time. Sure Angeline could have a 2 or a 6, but an A or a 9 is more likely, given that Angelina didn't fold preflop.

[mc1023]

From what I've heard of angelina I don't think there's anyway he/she is folding an Ace or 9. I don't think a 9 would've played this way and an ace would not hesistate on the turn.

It could possibly be one of those plays where he knows if he checkraises the flop he may not get a fold from you while he feels there's a good chance you'll fold without an ace if he takes the check/call flop and donk turn line. When a good thinking player that knows I'm a thinking player takes the check/call flop and donk turn line it usually seems awfully suscipious more than it would a real hand on a board like this.

Although your not geting a better hand to fold, I wouldn't be surprised if he/she folded or showed something like 6d8d. The metagame aspect and the fact that you do not want to show this down incase he missed would be a good enough reason to bet this IMO.

[ISF]

I would fire a bet here. I have played in this game a little, and I think this is a 910 type of hand alot. It all depends on your image though as I think she/he calls if you have gotten out of line at all.

[ggbman]

I think i check here, i dont see better hands folding or worse hands calling.

[rigoletto]

This is a clear value check. Angelina is not calling that turn bet with the intention of folding for one bet on the river and he doesn't bet that turn on a draw either.

[DrSavage]

Does everyone like the turn raise here?

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Does everyone like the turn raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]yes.

I do. Why would you not raise that turn card?

[DrSavage]

[ QUOTE ]
I do. Why would you not raise that turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because i think that turn donk most likely comes from a made hand that's not folding, I wouldn't be thrilled about getting reraised, because all I have is eight high and diamonds/spades raising here is too transparent? Just listing some arguments, I can definitely see reasons to raise here as well, but don't think it's clear cut.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do. Why would you not raise that turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because i think that turn donk most likely comes from a made hand that's not folding, I wouldn't be thrilled about getting reraised, because all I have is eight high and diamonds/spades raising here is too transparent? Just listing some arguments, I can definitely see reasons to raise here as well, but don't think it's clear cut.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, the donk bet screams of a hand that isn't folding.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do. Why would you not raise that turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because i think that turn donk most likely comes from a made hand that's not folding, I wouldn't be thrilled about getting reraised, because all I have is eight high and diamonds/spades raising here is too transparent? Just listing some arguments, I can definitely see reasons to raise here as well, but don't think it's clear cut.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, the donk bet screams of a hand that isn't folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, people like to semi-bluff raise/check raise when their hands have a ton of outs like the current hand. These semi-bluffs shouldn't rely on you relative hand strength as much as the fold equity you have based on hand reading. Clearly the more outs you have, the less fold equity you need to make a semi-bluff profitable. But I think Barron is choosing a spot with very little fold equity, just a lot of outs.

I'm not sure if calling the turn and raising if you hit is better than OPs line since it is of course possible that Angelina can release quite a few hands here or maybe the donk bet isn't being read correctly as a strong hand that wants to see showdown.

Krishan

[haakee]

I check here, most of the time Angelina puts money in the pot after a river bet from you you're going to be behind.

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a clear value check. Angelina is not calling that turn bet with the intention of folding for one bet on the river and he doesn't bet that turn on a draw either.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree about a possible draw being bet. It might be a draw that has improved.
I would bet to get a better 7 to fold. This hand didn't play like a 9 but maybe a weak ace that didn't want you to get away on the flop. I think Ace is less then 50% so I bet plus if my hand was good she doesn't get to see it.
Mike

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a bet here...it may chase out a 9.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't see second pair folding here pretty much ever with both flush draws (and the straight draw we also had) missing.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do. Why would you not raise that turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because i think that turn donk most likely comes from a made hand that's not folding

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a good shorthanded player. I haven't played with him, but I would assume that that means that he mixes up his play enought that check-calling the flop and leading the turn doesn't automatically mean made hand.

[DcifrThs]

so i took the easy way out and checked.

angelina showed Kc6c for a pair of 6s on the turn and i take it down w/ a pair of 7s.

afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9. so im not betting to get a 9 to fold so much as a hands like a flush draw + hand that may contain a 7.

just somehting to think about that nobody mentioned.

Barron

[Enon]

Angelina Fekali (http://www.fekali.com/page2/page2.html)

[ QUOTE ]
Josif's second child, a smart young girl named Angelina. If the male Fekali family line is decidedly pragmatic, she is the Yang to Izmet's Ying. Born into the family poker money, she cares about chips, but not about dollars. Spending money comes surprisingly natural to her, but try taking a $5 chip off her stack!

[/ QUOTE ]

This was gone over a long time ago right? Is it not actually her but a hoax? Link anyone?

[einbert]

I'm pretty confused by angelina's flop call. From my perspective (if I were playing the hand), the flop totally missed me, there is an ace which my opponent very well could have, what is the point in continuing in the hand? I guess he planned on leading any non broadway turn in an effort to get you to fold, or do you think he was planning on calling you down with his king high unless the board got scary?

If you were in angelina's spot on the flop, what would you usually do and why?

I think there is definitely something I could learn here. Any insight you can give is appreciated.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty confused by angelina's flop call. From my perspective (if I were playing the hand), the flop totally missed me, there is an ace which my opponent very well could have, what is the point in continuing in the hand? I guess he planned on leading any non broadway turn in an effort to get you to fold, or do you think he was planning on calling you down with his king high unless the board got scary?

If you were in angelina's spot on the flop, what would you usually do and why?

I think there is definitely something I could learn here. Any insight you can give is appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't speak for what angelina was thinking.

but i can tell you that ive played enough hands with him to have a history.

we are both very aggressive players, however, for the most part, i require some sort of hand to defend or take the offensive in or out of position.

angelina is capable of playing back very very light, as seen here by his flop call w/ K6cc.

i will, however, fold to that turn donk enough to make it a worthy proposition.

given that he check called the flop and bet the turn i didn't think he had an ace, or even a 9 (although a 9 was more likely than the A at that point, and imo.)

i raised b/c that check call on the flop and turn bet could be done with nothing, albeit a nothing that still beats 8 high.

plus, if called, i have many many outs to make a hand. angelina wont tilt though so thats not a factor. the only implied odds are 1 bet plus the increased fold equity to a riverbet.

had i NOT made a showdownable pair, the river would have been an interesting street...does a 6 call there? what about a 7? a bet may be called for.

but given my hand and the action, i felt a bet would accomplish nothing so i checked.

angelina and i will continue to play together i would assume and playing HU in or out of position makes me think more about a hand and the general texture of the entire hand and those that preceeded it and not just what is happeneing at the moment.

Barron

[KaneKungFu123]

hearing angelina but not getting jolie following is depressing.

[ErrantNight]

f'real

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
so i took the easy way out and checked.

angelina showed Kc6c for a pair of 6s on the turn and i take it down w/ a pair of 7s.

afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9. so im not betting to get a 9 to fold so much as a hands like a flush draw + hand that may contain a 7.

just somehting to think about that nobody mentioned.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

You really need to bet. Giving free showdowns in spots like this is going to ensure that Angelina continues to take shots at you in these headsup situations.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty confused by angelina's flop call. ...

[/ QUOTE ]
angelina is capable of playing back very very light, as seen here by his flop call w/ K6cc...ngelina and i will continue to play together i would assume and playing HU in or out of position makes me think more about a hand and the general texture of the entire hand and those that preceeded it and not just what is happeneing at the moment.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think you need to bet the turn unimproved more often as an overall strategy against Angelina or do you think Angelina will often call you down with K-high in these situations?

[TJSWAN]

Read the other bio's they're friggin hysterical.

Professional sheepherders and license plate makers...


Tim /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so i took the easy way out and checked.

angelina showed Kc6c for a pair of 6s on the turn and i take it down w/ a pair of 7s.

afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9. so im not betting to get a 9 to fold so much as a hands like a flush draw + hand that may contain a 7.

just somehting to think about that nobody mentioned.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

You really need to bet. Giving free showdowns in spots like this is going to ensure that Angelina continues to take shots at you in these headsup situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

clark, ive been in spots where i bet this river as well. angelina will continue to take shots at me irrespective of this particular street's action. i agree with your point but vastly discount its real affect.

Barron

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i'd check because i would hate to be check raised here

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a stupid reason..
getting checkraised here is ok because youll NEVER have the best hand, and you wont have to show down your ugly hand that you were pounding with.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much short-handed poker have you played with good players? I haven't played a lot, but in my short experience, river bluffs are not unusual.


[/ QUOTE ]plenty... a river CR here is never a bluff. no way.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i'd check because i would hate to be check raised here

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a stupid reason..
getting checkraised here is ok because youll NEVER have the best hand, and you wont have to show down your ugly hand that you were pounding with.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much short-handed poker have you played with good players? I haven't played a lot, but in my short experience, river bluffs are not unusual.


[/ QUOTE ]plenty... a river CR here is never a bluff. no way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey flawless, I have check-raised rivers like this several times in my poker career, especially when playing shorthanded against people who think that no one would ever bluff a river like this.
-James

[skp]

A checkraise on the river is one thing but a checkraise river bluff is another. In order for the latter to work, one has to be very confident that the other guy will bet the river for him. If that confidence is not there, a bluff bet is the safer course than a river checkraise bluff.

IME, most river checkraise bluffs come to mind after the fact. That is, they happen when player A has given up on a hand because he expects Player B to call if he bluffs. But then he also expects Player B to check if he checks. But when Player B bets instead of chceking, it then dawns on Player A that perhaps Player B may also be weak thereby making Player A think that a river chcekraise bluff might work.

Here, that situation would not arise given the board and previous action thereby making a river checkraise bluff quite risky for Angelina. So, if she did chcekraise DCFIR's river bet, I would be hardpressed to think that she might be bluffing often enough to make my call positive Ev.

[flawless_victory]

i havent seen it, but you may be very good at getting away w/ it... haha.


checkraise bluffing this river would be a pretty ugly play, IMO...

[DrSavage]

[ QUOTE ]

Hey flawless, I have check-raised rivers like this several times in my poker career, especially when playing shorthanded against people who think that no one would ever bluff a river like this.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I think checkraises in spots like this work better on slightly different boards where it's more clear what you are representing.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
A checkraise on the river is one thing but a checkraise river bluff is another. In order for the latter to work, one has to be very confident that the other guy will bet the river for him. If that confidence is not there, a bluff bet is the safer course than a river checkraise bluff.

IME, most river checkraise bluffs come to mind after the fact. That is, they happen when player A has given up on a hand because he expects Player B to call if he bluffs. But then he also expects Player B to check if he checks. But when Player B bets instead of chceking, it then dawns on Player A that perhaps Player B may also be weak thereby making Player A think that a river chcekraise bluff might work.

Here, that situation would not arise given the board and previous action thereby making a river checkraise bluff quite risky for Angelina. So, if she did chcekraise DCFIR's river bet, I would be hardpressed to think that she might be bluffing often enough to make my call positive Ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, but against a player like Angelina ruling out a river cr could be pretty dangerous.
-James

[mike l.]

"afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9."

so even though he's clearly calling you down with a pair of 6s maybe he'll fold a pair of 7s or 9s. right. good thinking.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
"afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9."

so even though she's clearly calling you down with a pair of 6s maybe she'll fold a pair of 7s or 9s. right. good thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think he calls the river with the K6.

Barron

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hey flawless, I have check-raised rivers like this several times in my poker career, especially when playing shorthanded against people who think that no one would ever bluff a river like this.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I think checkraises in spots like this work better on slightly different boards where it's more clear what you are representing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I would almost never checkraise here. That doesn't mean that there are other tough and over-aggro players in shorthanded games who wouldn't.
-James

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"afterwards though i thought that i might fold out a better pair of 7s w/ a draw of somekind in addition to the 9."

so even though she's clearly calling you down with a pair of 6s maybe she'll fold a pair of 7s or 9s. right. good thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think he calls the river with the K6.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]youre most likely wrong here.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Here, that situation would not arise given the board and previous action thereby making a river checkraise bluff quite risky for Angelina. So, if she did chcekraise DCFIR's river bet, I would be hardpressed to think that she might be bluffing often enough to make my call positive Ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

This board has a couple of missed draws that may have been raised on the turn. Diamonds and spades both missed.

For exactly the same reason that a pair is always calling your river bet, a low missed draw may take a shot at raising. He can easily think that you are on a draw.

Whether or not your analysis is correct that you can't call a raise is another question. Maybe, maybe not. The point is, it's perfectly reasonable for him to think you may have been drawing and missed, so assigning him a probability of ZERO (not your words skp, I know) to bluff raise this draw heavy board is crazy.

-eric

[skp]

All true but the natural inclination for Angelina if she considers the probability of Dcfir being on a draw being high enough is then for Angelina to bluff herself rather than going for a bluff checkraise.

For a bluff checkraise to be put into action, several elements need to be present:

1. Angelina must have a nothing hand - for if she had a little something, checkcalling is better

2. DCFir must have a nothing hand which he will bet or Dcfir must have a weak hand with which he will bet and release to a checkraise

So, if say Angelina had a missed spade draw or whatever was on the board but also felt that DCFir may have been on a draw and missed, she would way more likely bluff than bluff checkraise.

But I agree that her chances of bluff checkraising aren't zero.

[mike l.]

"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you're right. i thought that at the time he could have maybe folded a 7 with a better kicker, but ex post ante its clearly not happeneing. i should probably adjust my value betting range accordingly.

Barron

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you're right. i thought that at the time he could have maybe folded a 7 with a better kicker, but ex post ante its clearly not happeneing. i should probably adjust my value betting range accordingly.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are being called down by a pair of 6s in this spot. Doesn't that make the turn semi-bluff pretty iffy if not downright bad?

Krishan

[DcifrThs]

it depends. like i said, angelina and i play alot together.

he can make that turn donk w/o even a hand, nevermind a 6. plus i also raise the turn with goods and bluffs so it keeps it balanced...but for me to do that effectively i should bet the river as clark mentioned.

Barron

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you're right. i thought that at the time he could have maybe folded a 7 with a better kicker, but ex post ante its clearly not happeneing. i should probably adjust my value betting range accordingly.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you keep saying that, but what hand does he possibly have that includes a lone 7 and a better kicker?

[DpR]

Nice, this is the first interesting thread in Mid for a while now. Good post.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you're right. i thought that at the time he could have maybe folded a 7 with a better kicker, but ex post ante its clearly not happeneing. i should probably adjust my value betting range accordingly.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you keep saying that, but what hand does he possibly have that includes a lone 7 and a better kicker?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are many such hands. semibluff donk bets on the turn that can include any # of straight draws, diamond or spade draws i.e. K7dd, K7ss T7ss T7o, lots of those types of hands.

Barron

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"turn is a great card for me, 6s. angelina bets out, i raise, he hesitates for a sec and calls my bet."

"i dont think he calls the river with the K6."

he is definitely calling you down man.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you're right. i thought that at the time he could have maybe folded a 7 with a better kicker, but ex post ante its clearly not happeneing. i should probably adjust my value betting range accordingly.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you keep saying that, but what hand does he possibly have that includes a lone 7 and a better kicker?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are many such hands. semibluff donk bets on the turn that can include any # of straight draws, diamond or spade draws i.e. K7dd, K7ss T7ss T7o, lots of those types of hands.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok diamond draws I can see, but the 7 isn't going to have paired both of you very often at all. Are gutshots really calling your turn raise?

You're talking about a very very rare occurence when he's got a better 7 than you.

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a clear value check. Angelina is not calling that turn bet with the intention of folding for one bet on the river and he doesn't bet that turn on a draw either.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree about a possible draw being bet. It might be a draw that has improved.
I would bet to get a better 7 to fold. This hand didn't play like a 9 but maybe a weak ace that didn't want you to get away on the flop. I think Ace is less then 50% so I bet plus if my hand was good she doesn't get to see it.
Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Again I think it's an easy bet because she doesn't play a 9 like this.
She will pay off with the 6 since multiple draws did not get there.
Mike

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
You really need to bet. Giving free showdowns in spots like this is going to ensure that Angelina continues to take shots at you in these headsup situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't understand...isn't it more important whether our bet on the river is going to be a "value" bet and win 50% or more?

After the turn gets raised and called isn't Angelina going to call down with any hand that can win a showdown?

With the board reading A-9-2-6-7, it seems there are more pairs on the board (discounting X2's somewhat) that beat us than we beat. Do you think he will call with enough 33/44/55/Kx/Qx hands to make this a value bet or do you make this bet for metagame/shania reasons?

[DrSavage]

He's saying that checking behind on a river after raising the turn in these heads up pots significantly discredits turn raise as a bluff tool.

[Renaud Desferet]

1) Those thinking that she called the flop in order to take a shot on the turn are wrong. She might do it sometimes, but she called mostly as a drawing hand and as a possible currently winning hand. Most of the time, she will check fold the turn unimproved.
2) She will call the river with any pair because board is heavily drawy, 7 completes straight draws but there are still diamonds out there plus a possible pure bluff.
3) She would put more action on the turn on this drawy board if she had a draw or at least top pair, because on one hand she wants to put the last bet on the river with a draw because there is a fair chance both people are drawing, on the other hand, with any good hands, she wants to make people pay heavily for the privilege of drawing.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
You're talking about a very very rare occurence when he's got a better 7 than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my reaction as well when I read this. Don't forget that he both has to have a better 7, AND he has to fold it! This won't effect the decision unless it is already extremely close, which it doesn't seem to be.

my 2 cents.
eric

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're talking about a very very rare occurence when he's got a better 7 than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my reaction as well when I read this. Don't forget that he both has to have a better 7, AND he has to fold it! This won't effect the decision unless it is already extremely close, which it doesn't seem to be.

my 2 cents.
eric

[/ QUOTE ]

so overall most think this is a check for value, or a bet for metagame?

Barron

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
so overall most think this is a check for value, or a bet for metagame?

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that sums it up well. Checking as the highest EV play this hand seems pretty clear, but whether or not your metagame is really helped is still up for debate, IMO.

-eric

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
so overall most think this is a check for value, or a bet for metagame?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a clear froffle for skipitnitox.

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
he (im still assuming this),

[/ QUOTE ]

From now on I will assume that everybody is white women unless proved otherwise (note: homepage with pictures and videos are not much of a proof).
Seriously, c'mon man, "Angelina... he.." sounds bad. Why not assume Angelina is a woman ? Unless proved otherwise of course.
Btw. I dont know a thing about limit but it looks like chip spewing to me preflop and on the turn /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Best wishes

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Those thinking that she called the flop in order to take a shot on the turn are wrong. She might do it sometimes, but she called mostly as a drawing hand and as a possible currently winning hand. Most of the time, she will check fold the turn unimproved.
2) She will call the river with any pair because board is heavily drawy, 7 completes straight draws but there are still diamonds out there plus a possible pure bluff.
3) She would put more action on the turn on this drawy board if she had a draw or at least top pair, because on one hand she wants to put the last bet on the river with a draw because there is a fair chance both people are drawing, on the other hand, with any good hands, she wants to make people pay heavily for the privilege of drawing.

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I agree very much with all of this post.

[WillyTrailer]

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for those that dont know Angelina is an excellent shorthanded player. he (im still assuming this), is great and destoys the paradise 40 game. he is also one of those slovenian players (from ljubljana)



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It looks like Angelina could very well be a girl.

Check out here:
http://www.fekali.com/

and, of course, here:
http://headsupclub.com/page1.html

if you're interested.

-WT