Is there value to raising river? 400 nl

[Chaostracize]

Title says all. No reads.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG ($116)
MP ($352.30)
CO ($203)
Button ($572.40)
SB ($430.90)
Hero ($390)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, SB calls $12.

Flop: ($32) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, SB calls $30.

Turn: ($92) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $90</font>, SB calls $60.

River: ($272) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $90</font>, Hero calls $90.

Final Pot: $452

I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[HoldEmKillah]

Looks like a block bet to me. Raise it up. Btw, why did you miniraise preflop?

[xorbie]

I think he has A with a big spade or AJ. I'm sure if I raised this river he would have JJ though.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is not for value here, as he will not call with a weaker hand.

[Chaostracize]

Ugh. This one was my 400 nl table. I suck. Put this on the wrong forum.

Edit: I did it on my fastplay thread, too. I'm good at clogging the forum, huh?

[flawless_victory]

FVCKING HELL YES.

[Chaostracize]

I love you flawless. Thanks.

Edit: Got an amount to raise to?

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I think villain's holdings would be clearer if you raised bigger on the turn, and this question would be easier to answer.
As it is, I probably just call. I figure this is one of two things. It is a donk slowplaying figuring he's outplaying you by extracting 90 more bucks with a flush. In this case, it is obviously not a raising situation.
OR it is a decent player throwing out a blocking bet with a set or two pair. But the whole point of the block bet is to fold to a substantial raise, so if you raise any decent amount you're not getting called if villain has a worse hand.
The only benefit is making a small raise when opponent has a worse hand and is block-betting, but this is outweighed by how often this will be a flush.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Got an amount to raise to?

[/ QUOTE ]
two things are obvious.
-you have him beat
-he is scared

so just make it like 120 more... use $60 of this free money to purchase and ship me a bottle of vodka for the advice. thx.
BTW/ your location is dope. haha.

[etizzle]

amount of raise probably depends on how you've been playing. Considering that youre not autoraising this, i'm guessing you havent been speeading around.

Pot raise would be to 500, so i think i like ~325.

[Chaostracize]

PM me your address and I'll send you some Svedka. Nothing nice, but I can't afford anything nice after that $120 I lost. Villain showed A7o.

[kagame]

wrong forum

[Chaostracize]

Too late buddy, I already got a bunch of informative replies. If only you'd come sooner so I could have learned less...Stop trolling me.

[kagame]

EVERYONE gets wrong forum responses to 400NL posts

you dont provide anything to this forum that exempts you from the normative proscription

ps you dont learn much you always already have a fixed view of the hand, you WANT bias dont you?

[Chaostracize]

If I didn't have a fixed view, I wouldn't have a view at all now would I? The fact that I come here asking questions, however, shows that I am willing to have that view be molded.

It just so happens that I don't like your view. So unless you have something to say about the hand, there's no need for you to reply.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is not for value here, as he will not call with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]WRONG! He likely won't call an allin with a weaker hand, but he will call a smaller raise with a weaker hand.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Raise turn more, push river. Why you sit so short?
Edit: Thought this was NL600. Even more reason to raise the turn more and push the river.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is not for value here, as he will not call with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]WRONG! He likely won't call an allin with a weaker hand, but he will call a smaller raise with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

what hands do you think he'd call with?

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is not for value here, as he will not call with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it sure as hell isnt for folding equity, because he isn't folding a better hand. And i definitly think a lot of players pay of reasonable raises with aces up here.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of torn on this. If it were on the spot, before I've(now) thought about it, I'd raise, not sure how much, but after some thought.....villain has bet ~1/3 pot on turn and river, which to me looks weak, however, could be trying to trap you, and if he is just trying to buy it, he'll lay down to a raise, so I think your call on the river was the best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is not for value here, as he will not call with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]WRONG! He likely won't call an allin with a weaker hand, but he will call a smaller raise with a weaker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

what hands do you think he'd call with?

[/ QUOTE ]ANY ACE might especially two pair or 222 it's blinds yo...they'll just think you're getting out of line with KK. If you know you have best hand, why not raise? If you held 6 hi flush in this situation would you say "what hand calls a raise on the river?" You'd say "who knows? raise!" You know your hand is only beaten by an unlikely (given action) flush, so you raise, just like if you held a 6 hi flush, your hand is only beaten by a higher flush, so raise!

Edit: just one more thing to add, just because YOU wouldn't call a raise doesn't mean chumps won't call a raise. Not everyone thinks about nl cash exactly like you guys. Some think WOW I HAVE ACES UP I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS GUY CHARGES ME HE'S PROBABLY BLUFFING!!!

I remember one hand that basically went like this:

$2/4 nl
I have AQ... Q42 flop, chump check calls 2/3 pot, Q42A check calls 1/2 pot, Q42A5, guy leads for $20 into $200 pot, no [censored] way AQ is beat I make it $200 to go he calls with A5 and gets really pissed how could I raise that much with AQ on river on that board haha. Lesson: if you know you have the best hand you should raise