Check/calling the flop then leading the turn unimproved

[HoldEmKillah]

Can one of you guys help give me an example of a good time to do this? I can never pinpoint a good time to use this play.

[flawless_victory]

youve got to be kidding me.
this is like "lock thread, ban guy" worthy man... come on.

[HoldEmKillah]

No I'm not kidding. There's some very basic things about NL I've kinda winged on my way up to the 1k's. This is one of them. Pot and implied odds and equity are others. But that's for another time.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
Can one of you guys help give me an example of a good time to do this? I can never pinpoint a good time to use this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this just about never.

[creedofhubris]

BTW, this is usually called a "Stop n go".

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can one of you guys help give me an example of a good time to do this? I can never pinpoint a good time to use this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this just about never.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this all the damn time. I think I should be check raising more.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
No I'm not kidding. There's some very basic things about NL I've kinda winged on my way up to the 1k's. This is one of them. Pot and implied odds and equity are others. But that's for another time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't understand pot and implied odds? Seriously?
-James

[kagame]

am i the only one that has played with "HEK" before?

he plays by feel

[HoldEmKillah]

Of course I do. I'm not an idiot. I meant that I can't figure out pot odds vs $ odds to get EV answers on the fly. Just can't do it. I know what my odds to draw are. If the pot is offering me about that and I feel I'll get paid when I hit then I'll call. If not I fold. I can't do equity equations and can't figure out how much $ I need to make this call +EV and all that like most of you other brainiacs can. Yah Kagame is right. I do play by feel alot. This whole post sounds awful but I'm tired and going to bed so I'm posting it anyway.

G'night.

[HoldEmKillah]

This is such an uncomfortabe 'play' to make for me with, say, top pair or some other vulnerable hand. I don't see the point in it when you bet into the aggressor with a marginal hand and juice the pot or let him raise you. If that's the line ya wanna take just bet goddamn flop. Can ANYONE give me a good example? I don't think this is a crazy question. i don't see any use for this type of play.

[AZK]

dick.

[HoldEmKillah]

huh?

[xorbie]

Yeah so I do this all the time if I check/call a draw on the flop against someone likely not to have anything. Basically. And then I do it with a monster when someone has something. But this is at 200/400NL, where people are more straightforward.

[kagame]

just saying theres more to NL than the exact odds

he does fine

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course I do. I'm not an idiot. I meant that I can't figure out pot odds vs $ odds to get EV answers on the fly. Just can't do it. I know what my odds to draw are. If the pot is offering me about that and I feel I'll get paid when I hit then I'll call. If not I fold. I can't do equity equations and can't figure out how much $ I need to make this call +EV and all that like most of you other brainiacs can. Yah Kagame is right. I do play by feel alot. This whole post sounds awful but I'm tired and going to bed so I'm posting it anyway.

G'night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to offend you. I don't do EV calculations on the spot either(mostly because I know many situations aren't close enough to warrant them). I was just surprised that you included pot and implied odds in the list of things you hadn't gotten to figuring out yet, as you equated with them when to use the stop and go. As for a stop and go, I think it's a perfectly reasonable line with hands of all strengths, and a good way to stop your opponent from checking behind when you want him to call or fold to your turn bet.
-James

[TheWorstPlayer]

Personally I like this line a lot with top pair, draws, sets and bluffs.

[edge]

I do this pretty close to never. Same with when I improve. I tend to let the flow of the hand continue as it did on the previous street.

[TheWorstPlayer]

The problem with this is that then you end up letting your opponent check behind with draws and forcing yourself to check/raise your monsters or not build a pot until the river. It's often advantageous to bet out on the turn to protect against draws, to make sure money goes into the pot, to give your opponent a chance to raise without showing the strength of your hand, and for many other reasons. This is a good line. I don't know why a lot of you don't use it. For instance, I like this line in Bruiser's hand against GoG. I also like it in that hand with a set and with a flush.

[rwperu34]

I seem to use this move much more in heads up and three handed games. Hardly ever in full ring or 6 max. It seems to me that it is a specific play that you would put on a specific opponent and not somethinkg that is a part of your game plan against an "unknown".

One situation that might make sense is when you decide to slowplay a rainbow flop and the flush draw gets there on the turn.

Usually when this move is put on me, it is an extremely vulnerable hand like bottom two or TPWK or a small overpair.

On UB, I hardly ever saw it. On Party it happened often enough that I took notice.

I had a hand at 10/20 nl on stars which the villain did this play and it made me puke it was so effective. I have AQs, flop is 3 rags, 2 spades. I make it like 120 preflop or something, 2 callers. Checked to me, i pot, if he raising me i'm pushing since I think he can definately have TT etc.

If he calls, i'm going to go check check on turn and get a free card. So he calls my 300, other guy folds. On the turn he bets like 3/4 the pot into me when a rag fell. It's like, what can i do.. I spite call, and check fold blank river. I think if you have a good read, this is a very strong play.

[edge]

I feel that if I want to bet the turn, I might as well go to war on the flop. I realize that there's the whole increased equity vs draws on a blank turn that I'm missing out on, but I don't like giving up when the obvious draw hits, because a lot of the time, he doesn't have it and is just attacking weakness.

Actually, I don't check/call the flop often. I rarely check/call at all, to be honest. Maybe I just don't give myself very many opportunities to do this move.

[Staycool]

good, very simple ex. IMHO

I flop a set on a drawless board hu, I think villain has AK
I check call his flop continuation bet, then lead when the A turns, hoping to get repopped, (when villain is LAG!)

-A

[RikaKazak]

I think the set vs. AK was a good example. Especially vs. a 2+2 who won't raise, AND IN ADDITION might ck behind on turn to keep the pot small. Pot it at him on turn and river, get called down a lot.

[Niwa]

[ QUOTE ]
huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Rococo]

I like this line in a SH game against aggro players that like to pot the flop on a draw.