river decision

Trying to get better with my post flop play

playing for a few hours on paradise(bonus whoring)
mp1 seams to be slightly loose yet passive
mp3 seams loose yet somewhat aggressive(user name is alcoholic beverage

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero?

[ErrantNight]

i can't imagine you're ever good here against a passive opponent

[El Tigre]

fold, he has u more often than you need to call based on the pot size

[Nick C]

Just how passive is MP1?

On the flop, if there's some reasonable chance you're ahead, I think you should raise.

As for the river, it sure does look like you're beat. But I might pay off, because I do that too much sometimes. If you do call, occasionally you'll see a hand like A8o and end up revising your read slightly.

The flop bet, turn check, river bet sequence kind of looks like something more like T7s or 66 or KTo, though. Hands like T9/TT are possible too, if Villain is passive enough.

[W. Deranged]

1. MP2 behind 1 limper is probably not quite what I'd demand to play this hand... I want two limpers in front or at least a later position/assurance there will be no raise behind me. This is a minor point, though.

2. I think you should really raise the flop for protection and value. You love MP3 to fold overcards.

3. Turn is standard as played.

4. I find a river fold. This guy looks pretty clearly to have bet the flop with a draw, checked the turn, and bet the river when he hit. He'll show a T here a ton of the time in my opinion, probably close to 90% or so if he's really that passive. (Note we're also losing to a better 9, to two pair, and so on).

[hobbsmann]

raise the flop.

fold the river.

I would raise the flop hoping to remove mp3, to see how mp1 reacts, and because you have redraws to a straight and may have the best hand. As the flop is played, i like the turn bet because you want information at this point and you may have the best hand. Checking is okay if you fear a check raise and think you can get a free card. MP1's check call indicates overcards a lot of the time, possibly a draw. On the river I think you are ahead more than 1:8 so i call, but you don't have the value to raise.


Edit: the river depends on what you mean by "a little passive". To a very passive player, this is more of a fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Just how passive is MP1?



[/ QUOTE ]That is the question. Can a person that bets into a pf raiser be considered all that passive? On the river he has just one opponent left. Does he got me beat more than 7 out of 8 times? The way the hand played out, I figured villain to most likely be holding 10,9 and folded, but what if he put me on a busted out flush draw?

[Adam22]

am i alone in thinking that's a really bad PF limp?

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
am i alone in thinking that's a really bad PF limp?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, the limp is pretty standard IMO. In HPFAP I believe they talk about J9s being strong enough to limp UTG in loose passive games.