$55: KK into PF raiser - postflop content... preflop donkishness? [Archive]

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downtown

11-03-2005, 05:25 PM

1) Thoughts on my PF raise? I was trying to isolate the initial raiser and give him a chance to overpush. I made the raise with the slider... eww.

2) Thoughts on flop call? That board doesn't look too scary to me, other than a possible set of queens. I want to give AQ or (unlikely) AK a chance to fire again on the turn, and then push.

3) On the turn, I love getting it all in here, but I need a line check.

Thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t1380)
Hero (t1055)
MP1 (t885)
MP2 (t1775)
CO (t1320)
Button (t2070)
SB (t515)
BB (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises to t100, Hero raises to t225, 6 folds, UTG calls t125.

Flop: (t525) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets t125, Hero calls t125.

Turn: (t775) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t225, UTG raises to t450, Hero raises to t705 (All-In), UTG calls t255.

River: (t2185) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2185

bigt439

11-03-2005, 05:29 PM

Raise pf to like 275... looks like KK or AA otherwise from your position.

Flop call is fine. I like it.

Turn bet should be bigger. Don't want to give a junk hand a chance to stack you. Maybe push, or bet virtually all of your stack. Whatever he's most likely to call.

bjb23

11-03-2005, 05:32 PM

unless this guy is a total donk, i think id raise a little more pf as to not give away the strength of my hand.

other than that, i think i like the line.

RedBean

11-03-2005, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Thoughts on my PF raise? I was trying to isolate the initial raiser and give him a chance to overpush. I made the raise with the slider... eww.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. An outright push may run him off, and as you said, it gives him the chance to come back with an overpush.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Thoughts on flop call? That board doesn't look too scary to me, other than a possible set of queens. I want to give AQ or (unlikely) AK a chance to fire again on the turn, and then push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the call since the board isn't a major threat. He smells like AQ, and if you fire back a re-raise, especially a push, all the bells and whistles go off in his head that you have AA or KK based on the pre-flop action....but by calling, he may mistake you for AK or another drawing hand reaching for hope and if the turn goes blank, he'll think he is still in the lead and you'll get another barrel out of him.

mlagoo

11-03-2005, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he may mistake you for AK or another drawing hand

[/ QUOTE ]

how is ak a drawing hand on this board? just that it's drawing to 6 outs?

i don't really like your preflop and flop line. i think you've got to raise it more preflop... the "damn-near-min-raise-but-that-would-be-too-obvious" raise is not hot. just make it the same amount you'd make it with JJ or whatever. which should be something like 250-350.

On the flop, I mean... You raised preflop, now he's betting into you... don't get too greedy, take the lead back and raise him, and, ideally, get it allin on this flop. If he has a Q, he probably isn't folding. There's a possibility you'll lose TT-JJ, but OTOH, raising this flop prevents two things from happening: 1) A turn A/Q/J/T making your opponent the best hand, or 2) A turn A/K scaring your opponent off.

the turn line, i mean, you're both willing to get it in at that point, it plays itself.

pineapple888

11-03-2005, 05:55 PM

Agree with others that you are playing this too slow.

Weird little raise preflop screams out KK or AA.

On the flop, you have a strong hand, but far from a lock. Just raise it up as normal.

mlagoo

11-03-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just raise it up as normal.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh thats the other thing i meant to say. this is obvious, and you know it, but it never hurts to be reminded: making standard raises with hands like KK, etc., means you can have more success later making standard raises with 86 and 44.

downtown

11-03-2005, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just make it the same amount you'd make it with JJ or whatever. which should be something like 250-350.

[/ QUOTE ]

To address this part of my above post - to me that 250-350 raise screams AA-KK more than my raise, but I'm a little too deep to push. Meh. The min-raise. I'm not going to go so far as to endorse it here, but I don't think it's terrible. A standard raise would be best for most players here, so why don't I think that applies to me? FPS, as I said before. It does apply to me.

In levels 1-3 or so, raising to 3x the 1st raise if it's <1/3 of my stack or so is definitely my standard line... and I wanted to mess around here to induce a push (didn't work). Oh well, not the end of the world.