A hand dedicated to AggroHUSHposter [Archive]

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Spicymoose

11-03-2005, 05:25 PM

So I just sat down and was going to just be scouting the table out. Somehow I spaced out, and I saw UTG post, so decided I should post aswell from CO. That was definetly mistake #1, as posting is just about always bad.

Then when UTG checked, I and I realized I was in blind stealing position, and there was so much blind money already in, I decided I should raise. This was probably mistake #2. What hands do you raise from here? 44+, Ax+, K2s+, K8+, Q7s+, Q9+, J8s+, J9+, 98s+ would be a random guess.

I think the flop bet is pretty mandatory.

I think the turn bet is probably wrong, but not all that wrong.

Comments?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $5. UTG posts a blind of $5.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero (poster) raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.20 BB

11-03-2005, 05:26 PM

check flop so you can raise the turn donk for value. rest is fine.

Snoogins47

11-03-2005, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check flop so you can raise the turn donk for value. rest is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me Lee Jones, but I bet the flop, and take the free river card to see if I hit my third-pair draw.

brazilio

11-03-2005, 08:30 PM

Actually, I have a better hand.

Hero is the BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
HU
SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps

Turn K/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps

River 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets all-in, SB calls

SB shows 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

Final pot 18.75BB

wowacedude

11-03-2005, 08:31 PM

raise preflop.

brazilio

11-03-2005, 08:32 PM

I mix it up HU.

Jinx

11-03-2005, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have a better hand.

Hero is the BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
HU
SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps

Turn K/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps

River 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets all-in, SB calls

SB shows 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

Final pot 18.75BB

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

zephed

11-03-2005, 09:06 PM

brazilio

11-03-2005, 09:06 PM

He would have raised any card that added up to 7 or greater preflop, so mebbe not.

baronzeus

11-03-2005, 09:07 PM

i dont understand...you clearly need to sit with enough bets to cap the river.

brazilio

11-03-2005, 09:08 PM

I WAS RELOADING NEXT HAND, DON'T GET ON MY CASE

mex78753

11-03-2005, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I WAS RELOADING NEXT HAND, DON'T GET ON MY CASE

[/ QUOTE ]

You deffinately should have had enough bets to get full value out of your jack high. 9 bb's clearly isnt enough for such a monster.

imported_CaseClosed326

11-03-2005, 09:49 PM

http://img497.imageshack.us/img497/5951/nicehandfish2ne.jpg

oreogod

11-03-2005, 10:23 PM

was that tilt? either that or some crazy read he'd do this with lower than J-high...even then wow.

Spicymoose

11-03-2005, 10:44 PM

Seems I got hijacked....

Is this hand so crazily bad that it deserved an equally, or more horrible hand? Or is it ok, but noone wants to say so...

Please, I know its an odd one, but please some comments on the hand?

flawless_victory

11-03-2005, 10:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please, I know its an odd one, but please some comments on the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
it sucks.

Spicymoose

11-03-2005, 10:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, I know its an odd one, but please some comments on the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I thought that was the case, but can you elaborate? I think at least some streets may be close...?

Maybe not, just let me know why please.

flawless_victory

11-03-2005, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, I know its an odd one, but please some comments on the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I thought that was the case, but can you elaborate? I think at least some streets may be close...?

Maybe not, just let me know why please.

[/ QUOTE ]
postflop is fine, pre is quite a stretch to say the least.

Spicymoose

11-03-2005, 11:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, I know its an odd one, but please some comments on the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I thought that was the case, but can you elaborate? I think at least some streets may be close...?

Maybe not, just let me know why please.

[/ QUOTE ]
postflop is fine, pre is quite a stretch to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for telling me you agree with my postflop play. When you are so vague, I don't really know what you are trying to get across. As for preflop, can you answer my question as to what is your range for raising here? Even if it is just a general range that could easily be changed by other factors, just give me some idea.... Do you agree with the range I posted?

flawless_victory

11-03-2005, 11:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you agree with the range I posted?

[/ QUOTE ]
looks fine. maybe chill with the bad kings.

brazilio

11-03-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
was that tilt? either that or some crazy read he'd do this with lower than J-high...even then wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst episode of tilt at suckolute ever. He was a maniac, too.

Surfbullet

11-04-2005, 12:21 AM

preflop's bad.

Flop is good - you got one of the best flops you could hope for to try and buy the pot from the BB and a poster, who both have sub-par hands.

Turn: you got a peeler. If BB is bad and will call flops liberally I fire again here. otherwise i'm done with the hand unless I pair up on the river.

Surf

11-04-2005, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
check flop so you can raise the turn donk for value. rest is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me Lee Jones, but I bet the flop, and take the free river card to see if I hit my third-pair draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, the turn was a blank for your opponent, too. A check here screams "draw" to him. The bet says "I already have it". There's a flush draw and a straight draw on this flop. If neither come in on the river (nor your J), you face a very difficult choice. Betting here probably can get him to lay down a better hand. At the very least, it is likely to get you a free showdown.

imitation

11-04-2005, 01:28 AM

I always post from the CO (that's where OP is in this hand not MP, it is 5handed) and I raise any two cards if checked to and 80% of my hands when I have 1 limper to me.

I like this hand and it is entirely standard for me. I like it even more for me because if there are tags at the table they give me credit for a better hand because my data mined stats show me as tight and not stealing alot (comparitively). But I do it EVERY time so i'm not sure if any tags have actually caught on yet.

It's also good if the table has some unknowns and your garbage makes good, you get lots of subsequent action.

SlyGuy

11-04-2005, 02:08 AM

we should do another hand history exchange where i review your hands and you don't look at mine.

kiddo

11-04-2005, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow I spaced out, and I saw UTG post, so decided I should post aswell from CO. That was definetly mistake #1, as posting is just about always bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

If u are a winner it is good posting in CO. (we had a good thread about this once, but Im not good with the archive so Ill write the basics down)

In BB an ok player loses -0.15BB/hand posting. In CO you got better position, lets say u lose -0.12BB/hand. A good player also wins in all positions but blinds so when u play in MP and UTG instead of sitting out you will win around 0.07-+0.1BB.

So, for a winning player its +EV to post.

Also, people dont have an automatic response against someone posting in CO because its pretty uncommon so u will lose a little less then normal I think.

In this hand: Dont raise preflop, without poster I would think about it because its only 1SB stealing 3.5SB, but not now (Bob Ciaffone says to raise with any2 if u post and everyone folds, maybe he is right?). Bet flop and when they call u are done with it.

brazilio

11-04-2005, 03:56 AM

Isn't that loss in the BB including the posting cost? I just assumed since at fr the cost/hand is lower posting in the CO is ok, but at 6-max since it's going to be higher posting in the CO and playing 3 for 1 instead of 6 for 1.5, going ahead in the CO was bad.

kiddo

11-04-2005, 07:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't that loss in the BB including the posting cost? I just assumed since at fr the cost/hand is lower posting in the CO is ok, but at 6-max since it's going to be higher posting in the CO and playing 3 for 1 instead of 6 for 1.5, going ahead in the CO was bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand what u say. I tried to read it many times, but I just cant get it. (what is "fr"? and why should it be higher cost/hand in CO?)

Posting cost in BB and CO is the same: 0.5BB.

If u look in Pokertracker u will se that you are losing something like -0.15BB in BB when u look at all times u been in BB. That is, u win back 0.35BB of the 0.5BB you post. (If u play optimally in BB no hand will lose more then -0.5BB and some hands will win a lot)

In CO u post 0.5BB and win back a little more then 0.35 since u got better position then BB (you cant see this in Pokertracker unless u posted in CO like 1000 times). And u win more in MP and UTG then u lose in CO so its better to post in CO then wait for BB.

11-04-2005, 10:54 AM

Kiddo,

In a 5 handed game, posting in the CO is -EV. You only get your UTG free hand to make up the difference and that's not enough. Spicymoose's CO post wasn't a positive play.

Also, in a 6 handed game, there will be times you post in the CO and either one of the two players in front of you quit the game before you get both of your free hands. That has to be factored in.

brazilio

11-04-2005, 11:19 PM

Sorry, I meant the loss in the BB is actually no different than posting in the CO because the BB loses money because we're posting AND because we're playing a random hand a good portion of the time. Although in this specific case posting in the CO vs the BB, the CO should have a slight advantage because of position, I don't think it nearly matches the pt numbers in general. fr = full ring. Also, we're talking about posting and then getting our free hands in addition to the posting cost, like Our House talked about. We might be paying .5BB posting in the CO and .75BB posting in the BB, but the number of free hands we get is important.

In addition, when you post in the CO you don't get the button on that revolution.