Bottom pair

Third hand at the table so no reads.
Sorry about the format, I couldn't get it to work on BisonBison. Is there something special you need to do to get Absolute to work?

Absolute 2.00/4.00 (8 handed)


Preflop: Hero is button with Ad 2d
1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO fold, hero calls, SB folds, BB checks


flop:(4.5 SB)5h 8d 2s
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 Calls, <font color="red">Hero raises </font>, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

Turn (5 BB) 3c
MP1 bets, MP2 folds, hero calls

River (7 BB) Qd
MP1 bets, hero folds


I question the raise on the flop. Putting general starting hands into Pokerstove for the other three players I have a slight equity edge. However my thoughts now are that since the intial bet is called I have probably lost my equity edge. I don't really like a call, so is it raise or fold?

Should I have called the turn bet?

[Doc7]

I fold the turn. I probably only call on the flop as well with 2 backdoor draws. As SSHE says the turn card is more important than the river with this kind of hand on the flop. (As in, you don't raise for a free card play, and I'm not sure this is a value raise either.)

edit: wow my reply makes no sense. one of your backdoor draw cards came on the turn yet I still want to fold the gutshot.
I still fold the turn and only call the flop.

[Sightless]

If you wish to contnue on the Flop, then i just call. You have a bottom pair and 2 weak backdoor draws. The pot is small and you are probably very behind. I think raising is bad because Mp1 migth 3bet and that would just be very horrible

[WalkAmongUs]

Definitely just call if you are going to continue. You have about ~7 outs here giving you about 14% equity. You're putting in 33% of the bets on the flop.

This represents a pot equity DEFICIT. So you definitely don't want to raise. You can however call becuase you only need to be getting 6:1 odds+implied which you are.

I'm sure somebody could check my math on that but I think it should be approximately close.

[beaster]

Hm. Back door flush draw and bottom pair. We can figure 2 2s, 3 As as outs for a total of 5 plus the BDFD which gives us 6.5. I call the flop. On the turn, if you miss a diamond, you're down to 5 outs which you can reasonably call. Fold the river unimproved.

EDIT: Whoops, I missed the wheel draw. And I my thinking was messed up on the turn. WITH the wheel draw, you can call since you have 3 aces, 2 deuces, and 3 to complete your straight. 7 outs. Call.

I would just call on the flop because as others have stated, the turn card is going to have a huge impact on your hand. If I did call, I would fold on the turn because you would be getting 3.5:1 with 7 outs at best (unless you are actually ahead which I doubt).

As it stands, I would still probably fold the turn because you are getting 6:1 and have about 5.5 outs. If you know that you can get him for 2+ on the river then I might consider it, but it not a definite especially if an A hits.

Edit: Totally forgot about the 2s. I guess it's still early. With ~7 outs I am calling.

[cfjr2]

flop
6-7 outs (3xA, 2x2, bdstr8, bdflsh) ~1:7 6.5 sb to you
ok call

turn
9 outs (3xA, 2x2, 4x4) but you need to discount as you could split if he has an A and a 4 drops so 7 less another as you may lose to a bigger 2p if an A drops
so ~6 outs ~6.5:1 6BB to you
borderline call
(you may get an extra bet if the 2 drops and he thinks your river raise is a bluff)

[BigAlChicago]

I might be out of step, but I actually like the flop raise. You are in late position with what is essentially a drawing hand. Maybe the pot is too small, but on that flop this is not likely that coordinated with others, I go for the free card play rather than just calling.

Given the outs and implied odds, I do think I call the river bet when your free card play didn't work, but you did pick up the gutshot.