Multiple decision points with AJs

[Sam T.]

Stars $3 Rebuy, shortly after the first break. The stacks are deep and the donks are legion. I'm new to the table, and have no reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t18225)
UTG+1 (t24550)
MP1 (t2475)
MP2 (t35342)
MP3 (t2193)
CO (t40261)
Hero (t22775)
SB (t13999)
BB (t24781)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t2193</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>,

Hero?

-Folds?
-Cold-calls just in case the blinds wake up with a monster? Or is this asking to be chased off the hand?
-Raises? How much?
-Pushes to isolate?

More decisions to come...

raises to isolate

[rockythecat99]

Assuming mp1 doesn't come along. YOu are getting 1.22 to 1 on your money and need 45% equity against villains range. I think this topic was discussed yesterday. Depending on the tightness of villain it was a call/fold. Sossman did this analysis yesterday try looking it up.

[charlieD]

fold that shyte

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
fold that shyte

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, i'm thinking it might just be a fold.

Maybe you have his range beat slightly, but you're not closing the action.. i think a call is better than a raise.

The isolating shouuld be done just by this push, and your cold call will look decently scary, and then you can fold to a push. You'll have position if limper comes along too... and he's not going to bluff at a dry side pot (well, he could, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt).. so you'll likely see 4 or 5 cards (if you need that many).


i think i like Calling &gt; Folding &gt; Raising &gt; Pushing

I like Folding &gt; Calling &gt; Raising &gt; Pushing

I fold here because you MIGHT have the best hand, but you won't know, even after the flop, unless it comes AJx or 3 of your suit. Because those 2 scenarios are going to be rare, you're going to have another tough decision after the flop. What if the flop comes 6 2 A? Do you feel confident enough in your kicker after a preflop raise?

[woodguy]

I was going to say fold, but then I had abetter look at the two stacks involved.

I make it $5k to go...

Regards,
Woodguy

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to say fold, but then I had abetter look at the two stacks involved.

I make it $5k to go...

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Stack sizes were key - both villains are at ~10% of my stack. Also, I am working under the assumption that they are donkeys, and when donkeys get short they make bad pushes. (Not to get ahead of things too much, but when all was said and done, the limper showed QTo, and the pusher had A2.)

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
I make it $5k to go...

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont like this because i think if the blinds were going to get involved at 2k, they'll probably still get invovled for 5k, and i don't really want them in this, and if they come in, i want to be in for the minimum.

but, maybe i'm being a pussy.

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it $5k to go...

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont like this because i think if the blinds were going to get involved at 2k, they'll probably still get invovled for 5k, and i don't really want them in this, and if they come in, i want to be in for the minimum.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the question I'm trying to figure out. If I just call, the blinds will be getting about 2:1 on their call, and may hang around with hands that I beat pre-flop, but do I want to risk being outflopped? A raise would chase small-medium pairs, other AJs, and maybe even AQ (though probably not given the looseness of the tournament).

[Sam T.]

Okay, assuming I don't fold, how do you react if

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG (t18225)
UTG+1 (t24550)
MP1 (t2475)
MP2 (t35342)
MP3 (t2193)
CO (t40261)
Hero (t22775)
SB (t13999)
BB (t24781)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, A.
2 folds, MP1 calls t200, 1 fold, MP3 raises to t2193, 1 fold,

Possibility one:
Hero raises to t5000, SB pushes, MP2 calls...there is now t27k in the pot, and ~8k to Hero. Seems like it's pretty close, but I'd lean towards a fold. SB is not doing this with TT, and I'm drawing to three outs in most other cases.

Possibility Two:
Hero calls, SB pushes, and MP1 calls. Now it's t12k to hero, with 18k in the pot, or 1.5:1. Another fold, I assume?

Then what really happened:
Hero called, SB pushed, BB pushed, MP2 called. t41k in the pot, t20 to call. Hero auto-mucks. Hands in white below:

<font color="white">SB had QQ, BB had AJ(hunh?). Not that it matters, but the flop came all hearts. </font>

[Exitonly]

yea i think they're both folds.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like this because i think if the blinds were going to get involved at 2k, they'll probably still get invovled for 5k, and i don't really want them in this, and if they come in, i want to be in for the minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point, but I don't want to invite them in with really good pot odds and fantastic implied odds.

If I raise I have a much better idea of what they are holding than if I flat call.

I flat call here with AA to invite some overcalls, but not with AJs, I want them to define their hand as early as possible if they want to play.

edit: and I really, really, really only want to play against the PF pusher here with this hand

Regards,
Woodguy

[AceofSpades]

[ QUOTE ]
I like Folding &gt; Calling &gt; Raising &gt; Pushing

I fold here because you MIGHT have the best hand, but you won't know, even after the flop, unless it comes AJx or 3 of your suit. Because those 2 scenarios are going to be rare, you're going to have another tough decision after the flop. What if the flop comes 6 2 A? Do you feel confident enough in your kicker after a preflop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like Raising or Folding. Calling or pushing aren't even close.

Why:

1. Short stack is probably pushing a worse hand than you

2. Other opponents know this and will probably call with most hands they limped with

3. A raise shows strength and says "back off, I have a good hand"

4. Instead of calling a raise from a weak hand, you are making opponents call a raise + reraise from a strong hand

5. If you isolate short stack, then you might win his stack + dead money in pot with ace high if neither pairs.

6. If you call here, you are playing a huge pot with the possibility that someone else flops a king or queen and wins it.

7. If you push there is always the possibility that BB has JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AQ, or AK, and will instantly call.

[AceofSpades]

[ QUOTE ]


i dont like this because i think if the blinds were going to get involved at 2k, they'll probably still get invovled for 5k, and i don't really want them in this, and if they come in, i want to be in for the minimum.

but, maybe i'm being a pussy.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't think they would view a reraise from a deep stacked player, as much stronger than an all-in from a short stack? I know I would.