Blackjack vs. Pontoon

[Action Scott]

I havent' played many casino bonuses but have done a few and only played blackjack. I see a lot of people in these forums talking about Pontoon. So yesterday, I got on Intercasino and tried it out for play money. I guess Pontoon is supposed to have a lower house advantage but I don't see it...3 things:
1. You can't see either of the dealers hole cards
2. You have to hit on 14 and below
3. (this is the biggie) DEALER wins all ties

The only advantage I see is that Pontoon (21) pays 2:1.

Enlighten me, it seems that the house would have more of an advantage in this game.
Also, what is the proper stratgey then, do you hit 15's and 16's?

Thanks for your input.

I belive that http://wizardofodds.com/ is your friend regarding an optimal strategy.

Regarding BJ vs Pontoon the house advantage is less but the variance is higher, i.e., you are more likely to bust or win big.

Best,

Ralf

[rusty JEDI]

Doubling at any point in the hand helps the player.

rJ

[BigDave]

I am a big fan of 5 card tricks paying double, and often find soft 4 card hands that make automatic 5 card hands. That allows you to double before the 5th card and win quadruple, which is very nice. I think this is an advantage too.

I stand on 15 and 16 everytime, cause the card on the WoO says so.

[cassette]

[ QUOTE ]

I stand on 15 and 16 everytime, cause the card on the WoO says so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make sure you're not standing on a 4 card 15 or 16. Double down. Might not hurt to read the startegy card again...

[BigDave]

you are of course right, I assumed the OP was aking about 2 card 15 and 16's.

[velvetdog]

I just cleared my $90 Intercasino bonus last night (+ $65 in winnings) on Pontoon and I love it.

Pontoon Advantages:

2:1 payout for blackjack (Pontoon)
ability to hit after doubling
5 card trick pays 2:1
Ability to double on 3-4 cards
Ability to double after split
Pontoon after splitting aces pays 2:1

Disadvantages:

No dealer upcard
Must hit to hard 14
Dealer wins ties

I don't have the stats for the % advantage for each of these (Bet Sklansky knows though), but suspect that Pontoon would have a slight advantage over 4 or 6 deck blackjack, probably very close to single deck blackjack w/ favorable Vegas rules (double on any 2 cards). Agree that variance is probably higher because there are more doubling situations.

Blackjack would be preferred for card counters especially if dealt using 4 decks or less w/ good deck penetration, since Pontoon uses 8 decks and I am unsure of penetration.

[BigF]

[ QUOTE ]
I belive that http://wizardofodds.com/ is your friend regarding an optimal strategy.

Regarding BJ vs Pontoon the house advantage is less but the variance is higher, i.e., you are more likely to bust or win big.

Best,

Ralf

[/ QUOTE ]

And higher variance translates into higher EV, assuming you are adequately rolled.

[PLOlover]

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And higher variance translates into higher EV, assuming you are adequately rolled.


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Can u explain that a bit please? I'm not a newbie but I'm not quite sure what you mean or if that is right.

[BigF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And higher variance translates into higher EV, assuming you are adequately rolled.


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Can u explain that a bit please? I'm not a newbie but I'm not quite sure what you mean or if that is right.

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Correct me if I'm wrong.

I define EV as EV = Bonus - HA * Wagering Total

higher variance -> busting out more often -> smaller wagering total -> higher EV

It's a small edge but a player edge nonetheless.

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
I just cleared my $90 Intercasino bonus last night (+ $65 in winnings) on Pontoon and I love it.

Pontoon Advantages:

2:1 payout for blackjack (Pontoon)
ability to hit after doubling
5 card trick pays 2:1
Ability to double on 3-4 cards
Ability to double after split
Pontoon after splitting aces pays 2:1

Disadvantages:

No dealer upcard
Must hit to hard 14
Dealer wins ties

I don't have the stats for the % advantage for each of these (Bet Sklansky knows though), but suspect that Pontoon would have a slight advantage over 4 or 6 deck blackjack, probably very close to single deck blackjack w/ favorable Vegas rules (double on any 2 cards). Agree that variance is probably higher because there are more doubling situations.

Blackjack would be preferred for card counters especially if dealt using 4 decks or less w/ good deck penetration, since Pontoon uses 8 decks and I am unsure of penetration.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can confirm that pontoon after slitting aces DOES NOT PAY DOUBLE at intercasino.

I split aces and hit pontoon on both of them. I was quite sad so see the payout.
You also cannot double immediately after a split. You can only double on your 3rd card.
also note that 5 card trick or pontoons both loose to dealer if he hits either.


I have no proof to back this up but i honestly think that the edge in pontoon is much higher for the house than in BJ. I've been playing according to the wiz chart for months and have never made it to even within 40% of the requirement except for once. Or maybe i'm just very unlucky.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I define EV as EV = Bonus - HA * Wagering Total

higher variance -> busting out more often -> smaller wagering total -> higher EV

It's a small edge but a player edge nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you mean. And when you bust the wagering requirement is not carried over to the next month, right?

[Rudbaeck]

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I see what you mean. And when you bust the wagering requirement is not carried over to the next month, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

That varies. But the Crypto WRs do carry over.

Minimizing total HA is very, very important when doing bunches of first deposit bonuses at casinos. Read all about treating regular bonuses as stickies for even lower HA over on bonuswhores.com /images/graemlins/smile.gif (This also makes it possible to extract value from the cursed 'slots only' bonuses, which individually almost always have an EV of 0. But 'stickifying' them makes for a fair bit of EV.)

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
and often find soft 4 card hands that make automatic 5 card hands. That allows you to double before the 5th card and win quadruple,

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be doubling down on a lot more than soft 4 card hands. You should double down on 4 card hands up to and including hard 17, I believe.

[BigF]

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(This also makes it possible to extract value from the cursed 'slots only' bonuses, which individually almost always have an EV of 0. But 'stickifying' them makes for a fair bit of EV.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you are saying. But if you can squeeze out a fair bit of EV doing a bunch of them, then individually their EV is not 0.

Your misconception will do you no harm in this case. I just want to make things clear.