KQo OOP with bottom full house

[genya]

Poker Stars 2/4 6-max
Game is soft and somewhat passive. No read on villain.

Dealt to Hero Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Villain: raises $2 to $4
Hero: calls $3 from SB
BB folds
(2.5BB)*** FLOP *** 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $2
Hero: calls $2
(3.5BB)*** TURN *** 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif [A/images/graemlins/club.gif]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $4
Hero: raises $4 to $8
Villain: calls $4
(7.5BB)*** RIVER *** 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif [A/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
Hero: bets $4
Villain: raises $4 to $8
Hero?

I put the villain on an ace b/c of the pre-flop raise, so I expected him to call the turn c/r. What is my river action? Anyone make a call here?

[imported_leader]

-3 bet PF
-bet/3bet the flop.
-if villian didn't cap my PF 3-bet or my flop 3-bet (if he raised your lead), then I would bet/3bet the turn.

[mperich]

[ QUOTE ]
I put the villain on an ace b/c of the pre-flop raise

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize he is on the button right? His range is much bigger than Ax. I usually checkraise the flop, or lead the flop here, as it looks a lot less like a king than a turn c/r, which is the perfect opportunity for your opponent to release his hand. As for the river, I probably just check/call since all his hands have been counterfeited unless they contain an ace. As it were, I probably call the river cuz the pot is big and like I said all of his hands have been counterfeited so he may possibly be bluffraising something with no showdown value.

Oh yah, 3bet preflop.

-Mike

[genya]

hes not on the button, he was MP. Thats my mistake. Shitty hand translating.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
hes not on the button, he was MP. Thats my mistake. Shitty hand translating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still you shouldn't put him on just an A. He could have a lot of things.

[genya]

thats true, but my thinking is this:
If i c/r the turn, a QQ, JJ will fold
An ace will call
A king will 3bet (usually anyway)

my reasoning for not raising the flop is this: From my experience a player is more likely to call bets on later streets than without a made hand on the flop. If i raise the flop a hand like AJ or maybe even AQ would usually not continue, but betting or check/raising the turn allows me to gain an extra .5BB in the pot (excluding of course the 1/345 chance of running aces).

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
thats true, but my thinking is this:
If i c/r the turn, a QQ, JJ will fold
An ace will call
A king will 3bet (usually anyway)

my reasoning for not raising the flop is this: From my experience a player is more likely to call bets on later streets than without a made hand on the flop. If i raise the flop a hand like AJ or maybe even AQ would usually not continue, but betting or check/raising the turn allows me to gain an extra .5BB in the pot (excluding of course the 1/345 chance of running aces).

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that you should have 3-bet PF. That changes the hand because then you lead out obviously on the flop. If he raises, you should 3 bet because you want to get maximum value out of a weaker K and don't want to risk a free card on the turn to a flush draw.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
thats true, but my thinking is this:
If i c/r the turn, a QQ, JJ will fold


[/ QUOTE ]

It's 2/4 - They probably won't.

[genya]

my KQ coldcall out of SB is more of an adjustment to my play (or a leak). It usually puts me out of position with a weaker hand than my opponent.
EX Villain has AJ, I have KQ
Flop comes T43r
bet/call
the turn/river play becomes a chip spew, since im basically hunting for 6 outs without an ace.

KQs i 3bet.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
my KQ coldcall out of SB is more of an adjustment to my play (or a leak). It usually puts me out of position with a weaker hand than my opponent.
EX Villain has AJ, I have KQ
Flop comes T43r
bet/call
the turn/river play becomes a chip spew, since im basically hunting for 6 outs without an ace.

KQs i 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
He doesn't always have AJ though and you don't always miss the flop. If you 3-bet and the flop comes A-high, you'll get a lot of folds. I don't like a semi-CC here. If you think he's too tight of a raiser, just fold.

[mperich]

I agree with leader.

-Mike

[genya]

You do bring up a good point. And yes, he does not always have AJ. I just have a difficulty playing a king high no pair, and being out of position, and KQ too strong a hand to fold for one raise. My call may also bring the BB along. Do you think the CC makes a significant difference over the 3bet? I do have the option of leading a low flop, or check raising a low flop...

My call on the flop was solely to keep the villain in the hand. From as many times as I've played it against descent players I conclude that I disguise my hand more (and extract more value) by calling, and checking the turn where some players are betting their ace once more... because really how much will an ace pay me off? or QQ or JJ TT 99 and so on...

[genya]

edit: QQ, JJ and TT are very likely to 3bet a flop raise from me, and call down afterwards.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
You do bring up a good point. And yes, he does not always have AJ. I just have a difficulty playing a king high no pair, and being out of position,

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing overcards is very easy out of position, but you're never going to learn to deal with it by simply avoiding the situation.

[ QUOTE ]
and KQ too strong a hand to fold for one raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. If the guy is a tight raiser you'd be better off mucking.

[ QUOTE ]
My call may also bring the BB along.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want BB along. KQo isn't a multiway hand. Your job in poker is to put your opponents in positions to make mistakes. By 3-betting you put BB in the position of making an incorrect call with many hands that would be correct to call with hand you CC. You also put MP into the spot of folding a low PP or two live undercards cards on an A-high flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the CC makes a significant difference over the 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
I do have the option of leading a low flop, or check raising a low flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in any normal situation. You should be leading almost always.

[ QUOTE ]
My call on the flop was solely to keep the villain in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That should not be your first concern. by C/C the flop and checking the turn you are giving him the chance to check though the turn. This is a disaster for you hand.

[ QUOTE ]
From as many times as I've played it against descent players I conclude that I disguise my hand more (and extract more value) by calling, and checking the turn where some players are betting their ace once more... because really how much will an ace pay me off? or QQ or JJ TT 99 and so on...

[/ QUOTE ]

A slowplay is easier for players to recognize then a fast play. C/C - C/R looks a lot more like a K then 3bet PF - b-3bet - bet.