10-20 BB play vs large field.

[Clarkmeister]

10-20 mirage but the game was playing like a typical loose and aggressive Cali-style game so I'm posting this hand here.

5 limpers and the SB to me in the BB with KsJs and I raise. Everyone calls, 7 to the flop for 14sbs.

Flop: Jc 5s 4d. SB checks, I bet, fishy MP calls, overaggressive raises on the button. SB coldcalls, I 3-bet, MP calls, button 4-bets, all call. 4 to the turn for 15BBs.

Turn: [Jc 5s 4d] Ah. SB checks, I bet, MP folds, button calls, SB calls. 3 to the river for 18 BBs.

River: [Jc 5s 4d Ah] 5c. SB checks, I bet.

[Homer]

Preflop - I rarely raise from the blinds in multiway pots with big suited cards. I should probably do so more often.

Flop - Not much to say -- good three bet, obviously.

Turn - Good bet. You know your hand is almost certainly best (or is tied) when the button and SB just call. The button probably has QJ/KJ/76s, with an outside chance of a strangely played QQ/KK. This is so unlikely, though, that it probably shouldn't even be considered. SB coldcalled on the flop and called again on the turn. No reason to think he has much of anything -- probably has a weak Jack, middling pocket pair or a draw.

River - Nice bet, as your opponents pretty much told you that you hand was good on the turn, and the river card changes nothing.

Comment - I'd like to think that I would have been as aggressive with this hand as you were. In reality, I'd probably check-call the turn and river, which is obviously not as good as betting out on the turn.

-- Homer

[Joe Tall]

Preflop: This type of loose table and amount of limpers I would just check and see the flop. The odds of Ax out there are too high, and I find I've been wasting money by jamming these hands pre-flop out of the blinds in these loose games, plus by checking, I've been getting more callers, since the loosey's cannot put me on the hand.

Flop: Nice 3-bet.

Turn: I like this betting out, you raised pre-flop and you'll find out if the button 4-bet a set of 4s on the flop if he raises you here.

River: Button missed his ram-jam open ended str8 draw and folded, SB called and took it down w/A5o? Or did someone finger roll the George Gervin 44?

[elysium]

hi clark
i will catch flak for this one clark, but on the turn, i don't like the bet. i think you must check and see if your call will close the action, and if it doesn't, i like the check-fold.

the problem is that the table is too rowdy for you to come out betting; also, lately you've been getting called a lot and getting bet into a lot. that's not what you want here. clark i think you're beat by the buttons two pair. i don't like the turn bet.

if you had check-called the turn and gotten checked-down, then you can bet the river. but since the button called, i think you should check-call.

and yes clark, i see the MP fold. your bet accomplished that. i'm assuming that the MP is passive. well, you may want him to call, maybe not, but i think that you can safely assume that on the turn if you check and the button bets, if it's a bet to you, i think you can safely assume that the MP will call closing the action.

the main thing here is to not bet the turn. yes, i see the ace, but clark you don't have the right conditions.

[Clarkmeister]

I bet and both opponents folded.

[Homer]

Can you make up some more exciting results? /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

(Or maybe just discuss your thought process during the hand)

-- Homer

[Yeknom58]

I like the bet on the river nice and aggressive. Although I'm thinking this very well might be a situation where checking the river might be good because your going to get raised by anthing that beats you and any 2nd hand would fold. Unless you just bluffed out some crappy two pair. I don't really see any callers from any hands you beat. And from the sounds of things I bet anyone on this table who flops two pair would stay to the river.

By the way what time was this game? I was at the Mirage playing in a 10-20 on early Sunday morning from about 1:00am to 3:30 am.

later,

I was that retarded guy that sat down and made some super dumb bluff. One of my bluffs I didn't even bet the river. I checked it because i was talking to the guy next to me. I had A high. I wasn't on my A game if you know what i mean.

[Clarkmeister]

I left shortly before you arrived. The chances that you played with Dynasty are pretty good though.

[Clarkmeister]

"the problem is that the table is too rowdy for you to come out betting; also, lately you've been getting called a lot and getting bet into a lot. that's not what you want here. clark i think you're beat by the buttons two pair."

Ely, my entire image is built around getting called a lot and getting bet into a lot. And it's *precisely* what I want here. Note that not only do I get extra money in preflop, but I also collect significantly more postflop than I would if I was more predictable. All for one sb preflop.

Obviously this requires me to play a little more aggressively, as raises against me don't mean what raises mean against many others. This hand and my recent Medium Stakes hand (Top Pair and Plenty 'O Action) should illustrate that.

[Clarkmeister]

OK, some thoughts for you Homer,

Preflop this is a pretty standard raise for me. I'd raise against 1 limper or 1 limper + sb, or against 4+ limpers. Depending on the table texture, of course. If Tighty McWhitey limps UTG, I'll just check.

Flop, this is obviously a great flop for me. The 3-bet seems obvious as button is just testing me, and I have a chance to get MP to fold. When Button 4-bets, I'd rather call than cap since I'm out of position, plus it adds some deception to back down there. Note, however, that I am still fairly confident I am leading since the button had shown me he could be overaggressive, particularly on the flop.

The turn card should be good for me. Its certainly a scary card for them. I bet it because if they raise me here, I am drawing dead or close to dead. When they both call, I know I am good.

On the river, I don't particularly love that card, though obviously I'm glad its not a 3 or an 8. I must bet, however, despite what several responses have indicated. I agree that worse hands can't call (note that the paired board makes the A on the board play as my kicker), but the pot is huge (18BBs) and it is probable that at least one of my opponents has a Jack. My bet makes it difficult for them to call given how I played the hand (raising preflop, 3 betting flop, betting an ace on the turn and continuing to fire on the river). I must follow through and give a stiff jack a chance to fold his half of the pot.

[Clarkmeister]

"This type of loose table and amount of limpers I would just check and see the flop. The odds of Ax out there are too high,"

So does that stop you from raising QQ also?

[mauisupaman]

Clarkmeister,
I've been in situations very similar to this and would like to know your opinion: On the turn I always bet here as well and then again on the river, easy. Seems to work pretty well most of the time.

But if you bet the turn and are raised what is the correct play here (in reference to the hand you posted)? There isn't a draw to a flush or straight, and you've got outs only to the 2J's and 3K's. Is this a type of decision that is based more on the type of opponents as opposed to strictly odds?

Thanks,
Adam

[Joe Tall]

I play in a loose passive 4/8 game at Foxwoods and I find that I cannot elimate anyone from the blinds, but, yes, I sure can build a bigger pot by raising my QQ. However, I can get a lot of action (especially on the higher streets) when the flop comes Ten-high, and I bet out, 4 of the limpers will call, one will usually raise thinking I'm bluffing a rag-flop, I'll 3 bet and still all of them will call; I've even had AT cap it. I'll get called down on the higher streets as well with such a hand since I didn't represent it preflop. It may be just an adjustment I make for THIS particular game.

If there are two or three limps, I'll raise, but with 5 limps and out of position, I'll check my blind, it has seemed to trap them when I bet out on a raggy flop. The varibles are many, however, and extremely player dependant, of course. But this play has repeatedly payed off in this game.
Peace,
Joe