A4s in the big blind. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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11-03-2005, 01:02 AM

UTG+1 is a solid tag, MP1 and Button both loose and passive.

I was going to c/r the flop if both donkeys came along but flat called when only one came along for the fun.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 (poster) calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

River: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets

Nick C

11-03-2005, 01:21 AM

I think UTG+1 will most likely fold.

The unfortunate thing is that if Button was chasing a gutshot, he has at least a pair now. But maybe he has overcards instead. Or maybe he'll call with K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif. I kind of doubt Button will fold a pair he caught on the river, but maybe he'll decide the board is too scary to be calling a bet with his pocket 4's.

Anyway, I think this bet usually will not work, but maybe it will often enough. It seems worth a shot to me.

hobbsmann

11-03-2005, 04:29 AM

cheak raise the flop.

11-03-2005, 04:48 AM

You are getting equity to raise the flop here. I don't like the river raise. A lot of pairs will call you down here, and the preflop raiser may even call you down with A high and a better kicker. I probably check fold this river.

MyTurn2Raise

11-03-2005, 04:53 AM

I might be spewing, but I'd come out and bet that flop straight away.

My thinking is that UTG+1 will raise if he has an overpair, a big ace-broadway, and/or TT. If he has an overpair, his raise will be good because it will likely chase away the donks (who might also be holding an A) and create 3 outs for you. If UTG+1 has a big ace, he now must fear that you paired the flop and you can lead out at the turn or river, or 3-bet the flop based on how you've seen UTG+1 play. You have a great semi-bluffing hand, I'd play it hard.

If UTG+1 just calls....crap.

flopmonster

11-03-2005, 04:58 AM

CHECK RAISE THIS FLOP

Nick C

11-03-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
CHECK RAISE THIS FLOP

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, okay. I'm all right with a flop checkraise.

However, the third player in cuts down on our ability to steal the pot later if the PFR is on overcards.

Also, if the PFR has an overpair and 3-bets and that 3-bet chases the third player out, well, that's not the greatest result, though I guess it might at least buy us two outs.

MyTurn2Raise

11-03-2005, 05:44 AM

why would the HERO not lead out with a bet on the flop?

Nick C

11-03-2005, 05:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would the HERO not lead out with a bet on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Versus three opponents, I think you're most likely going to need to improve to win.

I don't think we really want the PFR raising with an overpair, either, though I'll admit that it might buy us two outs if he did.

private joker

11-03-2005, 05:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would the HERO not lead out with a bet on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting this flop is terrible. I shouldn't need to elaborate: but in case I do, why would you bet with a PFR directly to your left who will raise and blow away the field -- the field you need to pad the pot for your nut flush draw?

MyTurn2Raise

11-03-2005, 06:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why would the HERO not lead out with a bet on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting this flop is terrible. I shouldn't need to elaborate: but in case I do, why would you bet with a PFR directly to your left who will raise and blow away the field -- the field you need to pad the pot for your nut flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks...I think I was over-valuing the possibilities of gaining an out for pairing the ace or getting the PFR to fold an Ace-broadway hand later on. I might be definitely be spewing on this type of hand lately

11-03-2005, 06:22 AM

I didn't check/raise this flop for a couple of reasons. I think I'm pushing a small edge, out of position by doing so, and the possibility of a 3-bet from UTG+1 isn't great. I would have c/red with both donks in the hand, but with 1 I thought a flat call seemed okay. Maybe I'm off here.

As for betting the flop, I think that is the worst option here. UTG+1 may very likely raise and force the donks to call 2 cold. I don't want to see the turn heads up for 2 bets.

What do people think about the river bet? I thought this was a clear bluffing opportunity. The pfr should almost always have whiffed overcards here, and will almost certainly fold with the donk left behind him and me betting into both of them. That just leaves our friend the donkey who could have anything here. With 6.5 BBs in the pot don't we have the odds to bluff at this?

QTip

11-03-2005, 09:58 AM

nh

Those wanting a c/r on this flop aren't thinking clearly. A tag will 3 bet there with some frequency, blowing away the donk and he'll suck up almost all his equity, not you. The equity edge you have there is very small as it is, no sense in ruining it by betting out or c/ring with only 2 opponents.

The river bet I like. It only has to work like 13% of the time. You have the last aggressor in a very awekward position and calling will be hard for him. Donk could call that flop without seeing his cards.

QTip

11-03-2005, 10:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I probably check fold this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking this river is playing your cards. Betting this river is playing poker.

Jake (The Snake)

11-03-2005, 04:31 PM

I also prefer Hero's line on the flop for some of the reasons already mentioned.

Also, getting jiggy on the flop cuts down Hero's implied odds on the big streets due to our relative position to the pfr.

MyTurn2Raise

11-03-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

A tag will 3 bet there with some frequency, blowing away the donk and he'll suck up almost all his equity, not you.

[/ QUOTE ]

ahhh...great stuff Qtip. I now further see the error of betting out.