PokerStars database

[N 82 50 24]

Hi, I run a well-known PokerStars database. I think most tournament regulars have probably seen it at some point. I'm not spamming, so I won't mention it by name or post a link.

However, there is a possibility that we will offer it with a subscription option within the very near future (days or weeks). The basic idea is that the subscription option would show more data and would give somewhat useful summaries of the data. Right now we only show the cashes, but we actually collect all non-cash info as well -- therefore it is about 10 times as big as what we show. Clearly, we can make some profit estimations, guesses about ability by game type/profit level, etc. I've written a script to show all of that, but I'm sure there's more to be looked at. My question is, what stats would a group of smart poker players (like you'd find on here) like to see based on the information that we have?

If you have any questions, please post them.

Admin: if this is considered spamming, please edit it as you feel necessary to leave the post up. I'm trying to get ideas, not get signups... we already have more people than we can handle.

[ClaytonN]

How far back does the info go? As far as the cashes?

[ansky451]

I'd like to see every piece of info available.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
How far back does the info go? As far as the cashes?

[/ QUOTE ]

All info (cash and non-cash) goes back to around the beginning of October 2004. I'm in the process of putting more in, but I like to do it during off-peak hours as our MySQL indices need to update every time I perform an update. Therefore, I perform large scale updates rather slowly.

It should included at least half of 2004 before we make any type of offering.

[billyjex]

since you're not charging i think its fine to link to it. anyways i recognize your name from pocket fives and you run pokerdb.com if i'm not mistaken.

how much would you be charging? i don't play on stars nearly as much as most of the people here, but I always find stats like these interesting and if it was cheap i wouldn't mind plunking down some cash.

1. % time in money
2. average buy-in
3. % time in money sorted by buy-in
4. overall +/- $
5. basically, the more the better.

I already like your site, and hope you can make it better.

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
1. % time in money
2. average buy-in
3. % time in money sorted by buy-in
4. overall +/- $
5. basically, the more the better.

I already like your site, and hope you can make it better.

[/ QUOTE ]all the points above


is it possible to track # of rebuys?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see every piece of info available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we will offer every tourney. Much like the current tournament list, it will simply appear with every tournament played as opposed to only the cashes.

What I'm asking for is specific summary statistics...

If it would be okay with the admins, I would post a link to a sample page of what a subscribed account would look like as of my current script.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
since you're not charging i think its fine to link to it. anyways i recognize your name from pocket fives and you run pokerdb.com if i'm not mistaken.

how much would you be charging? i don't play on stars nearly as much as most of the people here, but I always find stats like these interesting and if it was cheap i wouldn't mind plunking down some cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that we will be charging for upgraded access, so it may be sensitive. If the admins say it's okay, I'll give out more info here. If not, I'll wait to mention it on the site itself.

[TomHimself]

i doubt the admins will have a problem with a site like yours being linked because you seem very sincere and respectable especially at p5's

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. % time in money
2. average buy-in
3. % time in money sorted by buy-in
4. overall +/- $
5. basically, the more the better.

I already like your site, and hope you can make it better.

[/ QUOTE ]all the points above

is it possible to track # of rebuys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, no. Here's what I have in mind in terms of rebuys:

We average the prizepool over the entrants as a default. Therefore, we'd put everyone in a typical 11r in for something like $40. However, we would let you alter the rebuy multipliers for a specific player by buyin level. For instance, if you think t soprano usually rebuys 20 times in an 11r, then you can put him in for that amount via a drop down box and then you can refresh the page.

It's the only way to get a picture of their stats unfortunately, rebuys are pretty much impossible to track.

[ansky451]

I highly doubt they would consider a link to your site spamming.

[KneeCo]

I'd like the ability to specify my own rating criteria across a number of statistics and have the players rated accordingly.

What are you thinking of charging for this? one time payment or monthly?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt they would consider a link to your site spamming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay... well, then please delete this post (but please leave the thread up) if it is...

This is how the subscribed pages would look. A couple things to remember:

1) This is cached information and it isn't dynamic. I created it fairly recently though.
2) Like it says, the date option won't work on this page as it isn't linked to our database.

http://www.thepokerdb.com/sample.php

Let me know what you think.

[TomHimself]

looks very very nice! but i do think it is a little cluttered/confusing where u have the winnings listed for each tourney like 22r, 2500, 109r.

[ansky451]

I think it looks pretty awesome.

Can you delete my 5k or so in losses in the WCOOP? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ansky451]

do you ever play poker tom?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
looks very very nice! but i do think it is a little cluttered/confusing where u have the winnings listed for each tourney like 22r, 2500, 109r.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, more numbers = more clutter. Unfortunately, our expertise lies in data manipulation, not design. We'll probably completely redo the site's design with a professional sooner or later. It needs it IMO... could look a lot better. Focus on the data for now /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ansky451]

So what kind of payment are we talking about for this?

Would the cashes part still be free?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
So what kind of payment are we talking about for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I'd rather not say on here. When we're ready to offer it (ie, the script is finalized and we have payment options ready), we'll mention it on the site and possibly send out an email to our userbase. It's going to be a reasonable amount that any regular tournament player could afford ... however, many players will probably opt to keep the free version. That's fine with us.

I should mention this product was not developed with the idea of a commercial product. I've been working on it for fun for about 10 months now and it's gotten to the point where we could actually offer some really useful data to our userbase. We've been hiding it because we've been debating the idea of giving it away for free and supporting the site with ads (that won't happen, I hate ads) as well as the ethics of selling what is, in some ways, "free" information. I don't consider it to be free as it's quite a bit of work to compile it and display it.

We eventually came to the decision that there are some (maybe not many) who really really like to look at this information. Therefore, we should make it available. We have a few "beta" testers who have access to this information currently as we improve it... jonrasool, ahh_snap, GambleAB, thorladen, MasterVlad and a few others. From what I have heard from them, they all love it. I've given periods of access to a few others (JohnnyBax, sheets, Empire 2000, bigslick789, FellKnight, Rolex528) and they've generally agreed the information could be useful to a tournament player on Stars. In fact, some of the testers have said we should charge more than the price points I initially suggested to them. I expect many players may not see the value in the upgrade, and that's fine with me. I hope they enjoy the free version.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Would the cashes part still be free?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, we'd never consider charging for that. It just isn't useful enough to make it worth paying for...

[billyjex]

the template does look pretty cool.

[Firefly]

[ QUOTE ]
the template does look pretty cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

[N 82 50 24]

Any more suggestions about stats to display?

After all, that's what I came here for...

[ansky451]

I'd like the ability to filter the stats (ITM, FT % etc) by buy in.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like the ability to filter the stats (ITM, FT % etc) by buy in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might put some javascript in to put a little + symbol by each buyin level/game type. You could then click the symbol and it would open up much more detailed info, such as what you're describing for that level.

[locutus2002]

its alot of data and a single number is non-representative.

Histogram of buyins
Histogram of %finishes
Histogram of cashes
etc.

[Firefly]

Is it possible to include the 180 person MTTs? They do award TLB points so it would be nice to track.
If not...not a big deal

[Ogre]

Don't make the same mistake

"is the player to your right a fish??? find out here at blah blah blah."

I like your site alot better.

the more info the better. ROI and ITM are important same with average buyin

Any plans to add other sites so that I can have cashes in more than just a $1 tourny?

[Nepa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt they would consider a link to your site spamming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay... well, then please delete this post (but please leave the thread up) if it is...

This is how the subscribed pages would look. A couple things to remember:

1) This is cached information and it isn't dynamic. I created it fairly recently though.
2) Like it says, the date option won't work on this page as it isn't linked to our database.

http://www.thepokerdb.com/sample.php

Let me know what you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I would pay 5 bucks a month for this info. But as it stands now I know that there are a lot of errors in the database just by looking at my stats vs. pokertracker and I don't even play a ton of MTT's.

Would you be able to run queries? ie. top 100 players at X level, Top 10 in the last 10 days.

Does pokerstars object to this database?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible to include the 180 person MTTs? They do award TLB points so it would be nice to track.
If not...not a big deal

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to do as they generate them on the fly. I could implement software to track them, but I haven't done it yet.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't make the same mistake

"is the player to your right a fish??? find out here at blah blah blah."

I like your site alot better.

the more info the better. ROI and ITM are important same with average buyin

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, are you saying we aren't some random crappy stats website? If so, ty.

I will be adding those stats and I'll post an updated sample page soon.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt they would consider a link to your site spamming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay... well, then please delete this post (but please leave the thread up) if it is...

This is how the subscribed pages would look. A couple things to remember:

1) This is cached information and it isn't dynamic. I created it fairly recently though.
2) Like it says, the date option won't work on this page as it isn't linked to our database.

http://www.thepokerdb.com/sample.php

Let me know what you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I would pay 5 bucks a month for this info. But as it stands now I know that there are a lot of errors in the database just by looking at my stats vs. pokertracker and I don't even play a ton of MTT's.

Would you be able to run queries? ie. top 100 players at X level, Top 10 in the last 10 days.

Does pokerstars object to this database?

[/ QUOTE ]

In terms of the price, it will probably be a bit higher but not much.

We are going to implement a cached ranking system that we would update on a nightly basis (auto-run a script at midnight to generate an XML page for the rankings to read off of, or something like that). A dynamic ranking script would be way too query-intensive and we would quickly crash the MySQL if we tried to offer that.

Oh, and I'm sure PokerStars will not be happy with us.

[ansky451]

This certainly makes me want to play stars more than other sites, so I don't know why stars would be pissed.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
This certainly makes me want to play stars more than other sites, so I don't know why stars would be pissed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's against the rules to have a centralized player profiling system. People do really like the regular db though, I've only gotten one really adamant complainer since the site opened. Most people tell me how much they like it... I doubt as many people will like seeing losses, but I still think the majority like it.

[Roman]

I think this is a great idea.

Can you convert the decimals into %s for cashes and FTs? its really annoying esp if u are 8tabling and looking ppl up.

[beenben]

If you put more info out you might run afoul of stars. I emailed them about your site and an idea I have for a site. They indicated that your site is borderline as far as their terms of use. They said something along the lines of your site is the subject of internal discussions regarding whether or not use of it violates the provision that they have which prohibits having notes that you did not make yourself.

for example, there's another site that is subscription that shows some of the things you are talking about adding- and they indicated that use of that site does violate their terms of use.

Does your site put any cookies or anything else detectable on a viewers comp?

[bawcerelli]

any plans for tracking single table tourneys?

[ansky451]

I highly highly doubt it.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Does your site put any cookies or anything else detectable on a viewers comp?

[/ QUOTE ]

Temporary internet files are detectable.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
any plans for tracking single table tourneys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we'll track the high limit ones just for everyone's entertainment purposes, but I doubt we'll ever attempt to track all of them. There are just too many.

awesome

[Yuv]

I love the site and the idea to expand it. If you do start charging (and I'll pay a reasonable price), please work on a better visual design.

[Slow Play Ray]

I just signed up, as I just finally deposited some $$ into Pokerstars because I have heard so much about the tournaments there.

I love the site - it gives me even more incentive to do well now. I don't want anyone seeing me in the red! I would gladly pay a small fee for those stats.

[BCl]

Will there be an op-out feature? where you can not be listed if you so prefer? im buying at just about any price just not real thrilled about being listed

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]

Will there be an op-out feature? where you can not be listed if you so prefer? im buying at just about any price just not real thrilled about being listed

[/ QUOTE ]

this is answered in their FAQ - the answer is no.

[Jurollo]

Just so you know, I will not personally think of this thread as spamming, as long as that link doesn't get plastered everywhere continue as you are. This is a helpful tool and the sample looks really good.
~Justin

[Roman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
any plans for tracking single table tourneys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we'll track the high limit ones just for everyone's entertainment purposes

[/ QUOTE ]
great idea, I would pay a lot if you offered this.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
any plans for tracking single table tourneys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we'll track the high limit ones just for everyone's entertainment purposes

[/ QUOTE ]
great idea, I would pay a lot if you offered this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quit saying that. You guys are horrible bargainers.

was thinking the exact same thing

[N 82 50 24]

Instead of posting 4 replies, I'll just reply to all the questions in here.

1. Opt-out: No, we aren't planning on doing that. I think it's a bad incentive to get people to sign up and I don't want a single person to sign up with the sole purpose of getting themselves out of the database. I apologize to people who don't want to be included, but that's the nature of this sort of thing. I, for one, am shown as a losing player in Stars MTTs. It happens... I rarely play them as I don't consider myself to be a good MTT player (ring games and STTs only /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and it isn't a big deal. Not everyone rakes in tons of $.

2. Redesign: Clearly, I suck at graphics, layout, etc compared to professionals. I do plan on getting the site overhauled from a look perspective. That being said, I don't think it should be your number one concern.

3. Jurollo: Thanks, appreciate the kind words. I don't plan on splashing the link around, but I did update the sample page to adjust for some of the comments that were made last night. Anyone who is interested can take a look (use the link that was posted above) and let me know about further numbers they'd like to see.

4. Roman/Pricing/STTs/etc: I don't have any interest in gouging people, so don't worry about that. I know I could charge a premium and get a few people who would pay a lot of money for this info, but that won't happen. It will be reasonable for the average player regardless of the large amounts a few people claim to be willing to pay.

Let me know if anyone has other questions/concerns... I appreciate the help so far.

[Jurollo]

I would venture to say that this site could eventually become a resource much like Poker Tracker and I would be willing to eventually include it within the forum FAQ. Keep up the good work.
~Justin