Atlantic Trout - ITM hand vs. hyde

[durron597]

I have been giving hyde's bets a lot of respect, most of the time when he bets I just fold, so I decided that this was the had to take a stand. How'd I do? (I probably bet more on the river if it doesn't pair me).

Edit: I should also add that hyde has seen me call down with top pair more than once.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

BB (t16655)
Button (t5357)
Hero (t4988)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t350) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t400</font>, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t1150) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t800</font>, Hero calls t800.

River: (t2750) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1200</font>,

[hyde]

If you have the hand # let me know.
I can't recall the hand, I'm curious what I had.

[durron597]

[11:19] bluefeet: why not lead the turn?
[11:19] durron597: i didn't want to have to fold to a raise
[11:19] durron597: and i wanted to see if he fired a second barrel
[11:20] durron597: that was one of the first times i had shown him any real resistance
[11:20] durron597: (by just calling /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)
[11:20] bluefeet: the problem is, he did - and you didn't raise him. &amp;nbsp;what strenght/hand are you representing by leading on the river?
[11:20] bluefeet: he assumes you're calling him down w/ either a FD, or a "piece" of the rag flop.
[11:21] bluefeet: unless you can get him to believe, that YOU believe the K didn't help him either
[11:21] bluefeet: i'm just trying to see how this can NOT look like a missed FD
[11:22] bluefeet: unless he has nothing of course, then your lead is fine. &amp;nbsp;but does something tell you he is firing twice with nothing?
[11:23] bluefeet: if he DID catch a piece, it's unlikely he'd fold here on the river 4 IMO....as i think you'd move a little sooner to shut down him leading on the turn
[11:24] durron597: the river was a value bet
[11:25] bluefeet: i get that, but is he leading twice w/ nothing? &amp;nbsp;because if he isn't he's a) likely calling and b) of course has you beat
[11:26] durron597: i wanted to get a call from a 2 or a 3
[11:26] durron597: if i don't hit the 4 then i push the river
[11:27] bluefeet: 1sec
[11:28] bluefeet: question: &amp;nbsp;he pushes over you on THIS lead, you fold?
[11:29] durron597: yes
[11:29] durron597: i dunno, a river 4 was the only card i didnt have a coherent plan for
[11:29] bluefeet: my only point is, i'd prefer to move on the turn.
[11:30] bluefeet: if he has nothing, and you cold call the flop
[11:30] bluefeet: i turn lead, or c-r is more standard IMO
[11:30] bluefeet: short of the 4 filling some goofy straight or something (in his mind)
[11:30] bluefeet: hmmm
[11:31] bluefeet: 2&amp;3 on the flop though
[11:31] bluefeet: (im @ work..trying to look at this thing)
[11:31] durron597: it's weird, because he was leading me on the flop liberally
[11:31] bluefeet: so he doesnt have a 9?
[11:31] durron597: he definitely could have a 9
[11:31] bluefeet: yeah, he overled just a tad
[11:31] bluefeet: indicative of a 9 i guess w/ the draws on board
[11:32] bluefeet: but see...i don't think he's folding his 9 on your river lead
[11:32] bluefeet: where he might if you led the K, or c-r....on the turn
[11:32] bluefeet: meh....you could be just letting him build the pot with your K on the turn - value betting the river
[11:33] bluefeet: if he has a 9 - if you think he could have the 9, you are selling the K then right?
[11:35] durron597: if he has a 9 then i only lose 1200 instead of 1600
[11:35] durron597: and i extract value out of a 2 or a 3
[11:35] bluefeet: vs. check/calling
[11:35] durron597: i think he calls the river lead wiht more hands than he bets
[11:36] durron597: a 2 or a 3 def checks behind
[11:36] durron597: that was a valuebt
[11:36] bluefeet: you save....vs. check/calling instead - you're saying
[11:36] durron597: 2 or 3 check behind because he knows im not folding a 9 ever
[11:36] durron597: and yea, i could also check fold
[11:36] durron597: if i believe he has the 9
[11:37] bluefeet: does a 2, 3 fire twice?
[11:37] bluefeet: despite your call, and a turn over?
[11:38] bluefeet: i suppose he might if you're chasing...keeping you from doing exactly what you did - lead into him on the river /images/graemlins/wink.gif
[11:41] durron597: /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tigerite]

Why not check-raise the turn all-in.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not check-raise the turn all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

An excellent question to which I have no good answer. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Edit: oh yeah now I remember. I thought he would call me with just a 9 too often.

[Roman]

honestly you just look like a donkey chasing a flush draw who got excited when he hit a pair. This is a bad way to bluff a pot. Lead/3bet flop

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
honestly you just look like a donkey chasing a flush draw who got excited when he hit a pair. This is a bad way to bluff a pot. Lead/3bet flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i think you're making this more complicated than it it.

I agree, your not getting close to the odds to chase here and you are not going to get paid off when it comes playing this way so you really dont have any implied odds here either. you need to be more aggressive beofre the river here...how best to do that? on the flop.

[Exitonly]

Bleh, why not more aggression right from the flop.

either bet out, or c/r him right there.