View Full Version : Folding a set of Aces
Too weak?
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10 players at Party 20/40. I have an established TAG table image.
EP (27/11/3 with average WtSD) limps, MP (64/12/.8 and loves to CR) raises, I 3bet my Aces on the button. Only EP and MP call.
Flop: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Check, bet, I raise. EP calls 2 cold, MP 3bets, I call(?) and EP calls.
Turn: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif
EP checks, MP CHECKS, I check (??).
River: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
EP bets, MP RAISES, and I fold (???).
lil feller
11-02-2005, 10:15 PM
IMO folding the river after checking the turn is horrible. Neither player has any reason to think you have anything, and might be raising with a smaller set, or 2 pair.
Bet the turn, go from there.
lf
mscags
11-02-2005, 10:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
IMO folding the river after checking the turn is horrible. Neither player has any reason to think you have anything, and might be raising with a smaller set, or 2 pair.
Bet the turn, go from there.
lf
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I was assuming there were gonna be four of a suit somewhere, and you had none of them.
The real crime was not capping the flop. The river fold is obscene.
baronzeus
11-02-2005, 10:37 PM
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The real crime was not capping the flop. The river fold is obscene.
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psyduck
11-02-2005, 10:38 PM
sorry man, you should move down /images/graemlins/frown.gif
cap flop, bet/call turn. call river given that you checked the turn here.
They capped the River and showed first and second nut, but yeah my play was still horrible.
I knew the fish was trying for a turn check-raise, but I guess I have to put in the extra bets to find out why.
BradL
11-02-2005, 10:40 PM
This is a joke right?
Hilarious fold. I RARELY fold sets online. Too many donkeys and the random misclick/retard factor makes it profitable to call even when there are 4 to a straight or of a suit on board HU. In this case, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Misplayed on all streets.
Facing this situation on the river, I'd threebet.
Equal
11-03-2005, 06:22 AM
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Misplayed on all streets.
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I completely disagree with this. He played pre-flop perfectly IMO.
beachbum
11-03-2005, 07:26 AM
How about not capping the flop in order to raise MP's bet on the non-diamond turn? Both villains could have a made flush already. But, they equally likely could have a big Ace, set, or probably a big flush draw.
After capping the flop, it's likely they check to you on the turn. Then if you bet, you're just going to get one bet out of each villain if you're ahead. I'm thinking why not have MP bet the turn, you raise and punish both opponents for 2 bets on the turn when they're drawing thin to dead.
Anyone like this?
bernie
11-03-2005, 07:35 AM
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IMO folding the river after checking the turn is horrible. Neither player has any reason to think you have anything, and might be raising with a smaller set, or 2 pair.
Bet the turn, go from there.
lf
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Yep. Only calling after the 3 bet on the flop, then being checked to, they can't really expect you to bet here given the action. A flush would likely bet here. I'd bet the turn. Then if raised, you have to catch to call the river. Unless you think one of them would do this with a lower set. Then you're calling 1 bet on the river.
b
bernie
11-03-2005, 07:36 AM
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[ QUOTE ]
The real crime was not capping the flop. The river fold is obscene.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Cap the hell out of that flop.
b
bernie
11-03-2005, 07:39 AM
Just asking...
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I have an established TAG table image
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Based on what?
b
surfdoc
11-03-2005, 07:43 AM
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How about not capping the flop in order to raise MP's bet on the non-diamond turn? Both villains could have a made flush already. But, they equally likely could have a big Ace, set, or probably a big flush draw.
After capping the flop, it's likely they check to you on the turn. Then if you bet, you're just going to get one bet out of each villain if you're ahead. I'm thinking why not have MP bet the turn, you raise and punish both opponents for 2 bets on the turn when they're drawing thin to dead.
Anyone like this?
[/ QUOTE ]
This line is a very reasonable one. The flop action makes it very likely that a turn bet will come down in front of you. There will also be a considerable change in your equity when the turn is not a diamond.
bernie
11-03-2005, 08:22 AM
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you raise and punish both opponents for 2 bets on the turn when they're drawing thin to dead.
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If they're on a flush draw, they are far from drawing 'thin to dead'
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There will also be a considerable change in your equity when the turn is not a diamond.
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Maybe. Remember, you might be the one drawing.
b
surfdoc
11-03-2005, 08:27 AM
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Maybe. Remember, you might be the one drawing.
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Agreed. But if a 4th diamond falls on the turn, you are almost surely drawing.
beachbum
11-03-2005, 08:51 AM
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If they're on a flush draw, they are far from drawing 'thin to dead'
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Here is a very likely scenario of everyone's holdings on the turn:
pokenum -h ac ah - kd qs - as 4s -- ad 6d 3d 7s
Holdem Hi: 42 enumerated boards containing 7s Ad 6d 3d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 31 73.81 11 26.19 0 0.00 0.738
Qs Kd 8 19.05 34 80.95 0 0.00 0.190
As 4s 3 7.14 39 92.86 0 0.00 0.071
There's a very high probability that at least one opponent is drawing thin to dead. Also, most likely at least one opponent is drawing very live but has considerably less pot equity on a non-diamond turn. Lastly, there's a small chance someone has a made flush already to where hero is now the one drawing very live. I like the action on the turn to be "check, bet, raise, cold call, call", personally. Who knows, forcing a villain with 2 bets cold on the turn might get him to fold a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif under a 10 too.
I'm not folding here if a bomb goes off- i'm betting the turn and calling the riv~
Yes. This was my thoughts. Pushing a larger edge later. But then the check totally threw me and seemed to be a sign of much more strength than a bet would have.
James282
11-03-2005, 03:19 PM
Preflop looks good!
(move down in limits)
-James
James282
11-03-2005, 03:19 PM
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Yes. This was my thoughts. Pushing a larger edge later. But then the check totally threw me and seemed to be a sign of much more strength than a bet would have.
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No, a check often means "[censored] I have KdTx and missed the turn and don't want to get raised."
-James
BradL
11-03-2005, 03:20 PM
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Quit Poker.
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Excuse me?
James282
11-03-2005, 03:24 PM
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[ QUOTE ]
Quit Poker.
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Excuse me?
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(he was agreeing with you)
BradL
11-03-2005, 03:25 PM
O, you sure he wasnt telling me to quit? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
-Brad
James282
11-03-2005, 03:43 PM
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O, you sure he wasnt telling me to quit? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
-Brad
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No I'm pretty sure he looked at your post and was like "YEAH QUIT POKER!"
-James
three bet the river? what? huh?
he didnt misplay this hand on all streets.....
folding the river was bad IMO, but you're exagerrating.
Gator519
11-03-2005, 04:20 PM
Cap the flop. bet turn. call river!
James282
11-03-2005, 04:23 PM
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three bet the river? what? huh?
he didnt misplay this hand on all streets.....
folding the river was bad IMO, but you're exagerrating.
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He DEFINITELY only played preflop correctly(maybe an argument for the flop, but not the flop taken in context with the turn play). Not close. Come on Tx, if you really want to improve like you say you do you need to read the writing on the wall here.
-James
DcifrThs
11-03-2005, 04:39 PM
...of a thread id like to either lock, move, or do something to.
it serves no strategic value. the orginal poster clearly misses basic poker concepts that would be better handled either in general or SSHE.
i dont think locking it is best but moving it seems apt. id rather not get a load of PMs anymore saying " YOU SUCK AND SSCKY" lol (that didn't happen but you get the idea)
Barron
BradL
11-03-2005, 05:00 PM
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Perfect Example ...of a thread id like to either lock, move, or do something to.
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Sir, you are correct. I vote to get this post and the downswing post (although the nls/krish post is gold) to another forum.
-Brad
lufbradolly
11-03-2005, 05:18 PM
Not beting the turn here is criminal.
Your giving your opponents a free card, what do you do if a 4th /images/graemlins/diamond.gif hits on the river?
That fold is bad.
Sponger15SB
11-03-2005, 05:46 PM
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Misplayed on all streets.
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I completely disagree with this. He played pre-flop perfectly IMO.
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Personally I would have just cold called preflop for deception. You can make more money on later streets this way.
ErrantNight
11-03-2005, 05:51 PM
cap the flop and bet the turn.
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