Do you take pleasure in watching fish bust?

[UATrewqaz]

I ask because tonight I sit at a table, guy has 30 BB and donkfest's his way into 76 BB

Typical stuff, chasing gutshots and 2 outters to the river and spiking many in a row.

Fortunately I was only hit once by this...

anyway, the worm turns into a hook, as it always does to our fishy friends

The guy is sitting on 25 BB and plenty of it has found its way into my stack as well as others at the table.

And like part of me is happy, I feel like he deserves it and all is right with the poker world.

I usually feel bad for the fish if they just go bust fast but if they win I'm rooting for them to go broke.

I'm a bad man.

[numeri]

I want their money. That is all.

[jaxUp]

only if their $$ ends up with me.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I want their money. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Reqtech]

My favorite poker phenomenon is when the fish like this suck out on the rocks who only play <15% of their hands.

And then pass on their winnings to me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[UATrewqaz]

It's hard to feel sorry for someone who caps every street with K9o with a flop of JJJ, which he did.

He just won a 30 BB pot with 73s, hahaha (I folded preflop)

[kapw7]

I have recently developed a bad habit. When I have a series of bad suckouts I yell and swear at the fishes. They end up leaving the table. I stay with the TAGs. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Everyone hates me.

[shant]

Yeah, you should stop doing that.

[UATrewqaz]

Do what I do, remain silent but start the "I'm gonna be cracking up when he loses it all!" engine.

It's petty but it keeps me going.

[TomBrooks]

I take pleasure in winning, and when I get someones money I'm happy. But I'm happy because I've made a score in the game. I don't get pleasure because someone else has lost.

Actually, I'm usually a little saddened to see someone bust out. I hope the loss didn't hurt them significantly and that they had fun playing. I hope they're not compulsive gamblers and that they were, and will, continue to play within their means. I wish them well to myself and hope they have good luck soon. Just not against me - at my table.

That's the game - and I'm a player in it, just like everyone else.

[milesdyson]

i laugh a lot more when table coach "TAGs" bust

I always hope the fish win (not from me). That way they stay at the table longer.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope they're not compulsive gamblers and that they were, and will, continue to play within their means.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit that this is me as well. I still feel guilty winning at poker, because I know many of the players that I've won money from do have problems controlling their gambling. Most don't, and many that do have problems simply run out of money, but there are those that make their own lives miserable and yet continue to play. It's something I continue to struggle with. At this point, the level I play at is low enough where the money isn't significant, and I don't feel incredibly guilty taking it. We'll see if I continue to feel that way if I move up.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope they're not compulsive gamblers and that they were, and will, continue to play within their means.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit that this is me as well. I still feel guilty winning at poker, because I know many of the players that I've won money from do have problems controlling their gambling. Most don't, and many that do have problems simply run out of money, but there are those that make their own lives miserable and yet continue to play. It's something I continue to struggle with. At this point, the level I play at is low enough where the money isn't significant, and I don't feel incredibly guilty taking it. We'll see if I continue to feel that way if I move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this is pretty easy to push out of your mind when playing online. Live you would get more of a feel for how much the players need the money. But yes, it is troubling to think that you are sometimes winning somebody's diaper money for their kids. I just try and take the approach that it's not really my problem. It's a cop out, and it helps me sleep.

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere quite a bit on the forums but I often wrestle with the same 'guilty' feeling sometimes as well.

I was raised in a very conservative household. Basically the people who lose are for the most part uneducated probably playing out of their means, hoping to get lucky as with any type of gambling.

On the other hand (the little devil on my shoulder) says well it's a competition with rewards to the winner or that well they get entertainment value for their dollar from playing.

meh. i'll still play, but yeah i'm sure there are lots of us (that are for the most part 'nice people') who question if what we do is 'right'.

Amen. Schadenfreude in action.

[UATrewqaz]

Well, I rationalize this.

A compulsize gambler is going to lose his money, period.

Doesn't matter if its to you at poker or someone else at poker or slot machines or blackjack or craps, etc.

As long as they have a gambling problem their money is gonna bleed, plain and simple, so I might as well pick some up rather than let the rake get it.

Annoyed me tonight. I left PT and PAHud on at bet365 while I went away to do some stuff after a session, came back and saw a couple of fish on one table (VP$IP of over 40%), got a seat after about 10 minutes and 21 minutes later had busted the biggest fish (52% VP$IP, 22% PFR) walking away $17 richer in 21 minutes after cold calling his early raise w/AQo and hitting trip Queens. He raised with JTo. (Yeah, I wouldn't usually cold call with that but I was on the button and he was the only other guy in.)

Anyway, point being, I would have stayed far longer but the fish busted leaving only the Rocks and TAGs.



Almost made up for being cold called earlier (AKs) to lose to trip 10s when his T9s hit trips on the turn (K came on flop, A on river). What sort of play is that in early position eh?!



Off topic: I've never seen as much cold calling as I did tonight at bet365 (usually a bit of a rockfest) and people going to the river having hit bottom pair or drawing to a gutshot. It was great! I should join Party sometime. I'm not used to soft games like tonight.

[MrWookie47]

Crap. I had a long, well thought out post typed about my thoughts on the ethics of online poker, but I fell victim to the time out bug. I don't feel like typing it all out again.

Poker is a fun game, and people pay money all the time to play fun games.

The fact that some people spend too much money on too much of a good thing does not imply that the system is inherently evil.

I personally will have a problem with myself playing poker if it interferes with my relationships with my fellow man.

Consequently, I must not let my love of money and love of EV trump my love of others.

I manage this by not choosing poker over social activities, and by giving 25% of every dollar I bank to charity. I have given to Lutheran World Relief in the past because they're one of the best organizations that maximizes the fraction of my dollar that helps people and minimizes the amount that's necessary to maintain the organization. However, my next donation should probably be to an organization that helps problem gambling. After that, I'll mix it up.

That should do for now. At least until I feel like writing more.

[Fryguy]

I take pleasure in watching a fish bust if he reloads for another 50bb right away.

[ QUOTE ]
I ask because tonight I sit at a table, guy has 30 BB and donkfest's his way into 76 BB

Typical stuff, chasing gutshots and 2 outters to the river and spiking many in a row.

Fortunately I was only hit once by this...

anyway, the worm turns into a hook, as it always does to our fishy friends

The guy is sitting on 25 BB and plenty of it has found its way into my stack as well as others at the table.

And like part of me is happy, I feel like he deserves it and all is right with the poker world.

I usually feel bad for the fish if they just go bust fast but if they win I'm rooting for them to go broke.

I'm a bad man.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
only if their $$ ends up with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah and

[ QUOTE ]
I want their money. That is all.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree that most microplayers that lose are playing more than they can afford. I think most people play for fun. When I started out, a lot of people asked me if I was winning. I wasn't winning in the beginning (and I'm not consistantly winning now either, but hopefully getting there!), and people would tell me I shouldn't play and blah blah. But poker is a hobby to me, and like all hobbies, it costs money. I didn't mind losing, and I still don't, because I'm having a great time. My personal opinion is that most microstakes players feel the same.

I always root for the bad players to win. I love it when some goofy 90% VPIP idiot wins pots against the tight players at the table, as this means he still has money to stay at the table, and I still have a chance to win it off him.

Nobody should win against the maniacs and calling stations but me, they should win all hands I'm not in.

[numeri]

NH Wookie.

I do agree that the majority of the players online play for fun. (As do we all, right? RIGHT?!) I know that at any level, there are players for who the money is unimportant.

No offense to UATrewqaz, but the line that they'll lose their money anyway is a HUGE copout. That's like my friend who stole someone's CDs from on top of their car because "Someone was going to take it anyway." No - he could have taken it, left a note, and waited for the person to contact him. At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing. Somehow, I get the feeling that it would be a -EV move, though. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think we all have to find a balance. How we find that balance is up to each individual.

[ QUOTE ]
At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing. Somehow, I get the feeling that it would be a -EV move, though. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting idea. I think you're wrong, though, that it would be -EV. I think announcing, "I'm a winning player, you all should leave because I'm better than you" would just irritate or amuse the other players and they would think you were a jerk or drunk and possibly play more aggressively against you to try to win your money.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing. Somehow, I get the feeling that it would be a -EV move, though. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting idea. I think you're wrong, though, that it would be -EV. I think announcing, "I'm a winning player, you all should leave because I'm better than you" would just irritate or amuse the other players and they would think you were a jerk or drunk and possibly play more aggressively against you to try to win your money.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the -EV part of it. When previously passive players (that's a sweet alliteration, BTW) suddenly start taking shots at you, they become much more difficult to read. I'd rather keep them passive.

[lautzutao]

The ultimate cliche...

"You can shear a sheep forever, but you can only skin him once."

Fish busting sucks, they might never come back /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
i laugh a lot more when table coach "TAGs" bust



[/ QUOTE ]

[Pedigree]

[ QUOTE ]
I always root for the bad players to win. I love it when some goofy 90% VPIP idiot wins pots against the tight players at the table, as this means he still has money to stay at the table, and I still have a chance to win it off him.

Nobody should win against the maniacs and calling stations but me, they should win all hands I'm not in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

[DRD66]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone hates me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I had a total donkfish to my right and was just PUNISHING him. Like >18BB. On my way to his whole stack. And, yes, just loving every minute of it and laughing and not feeling at ALL sorry for him. One of those nites. Then some 13/3/1 chunk of granite sits down and starts berating my fish, who LEAVES.

Please don't do this. Us marginal players need these people at the table to survive and improve.

[DRD66]

[ QUOTE ]

The ultimate cliche...

"You can shear a sheep forever, but you can only skin him once."

Fish busting sucks, they might never come back

[/ QUOTE ]

And a bad cliche. Sheep live a long time, fish come and go. Busting a fish isn't killing him; it's just throwing him back in the pond. He'll be back on the hook soon enough, or one just like him. There will always be fish, and in unprecedented quantities at the moment. It won't always be this way, bust them while you can.




edit: Wow, I'm in a dark, cynical mood. Reckon I've been sucked out on disproportionately lately?

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Most of the not just big, but biggest losses I've suffered on any particular table have been at some of the fishiest tables I've played on. This doesn't usually happen, but it has on occassion. Also, playing at a table with a maniac can be difficult, and more than once I've wound up losing there.

Most of the biggest losses I've had to any individual player have been to the fishiest players. I would be glad to play with them again; but in the short run, they have sometimes been able to take the most money off me with all their draws and suckouts.

I don't take it for granted that I'm sure to win at any table; even the ones where I'm clearly one of the better, if not one of the best players there.

[POKhER]

I think of it like this...

1, A compulsive gambler will lose all his money eventually,
2, You are not forcing any fish to play, they chose to bet and raise... even sit down.
3, You play good poker, You may intentionally chase fish but the aim of the game is to take chips from your opponents... is it not?

Win or lose, The fish will play when they chose to.

A few things that may be morally wrong however are:
1, Intentionally buddy listing fish and stalking them.
2, Egging on bad play by the fish "Nice hand" "dam well played"
3, Encouraging them to rebuy, be it "Dam you won loads, Rebuy so you can play more... you just got unlucky".

Anyhow, i see it as:

Ive not forced them to play. Sitting to their left is for no other reason than liking the view... and the seat is warm. I buddy listed them because they amuse me, and i gamble for fun... its not to take their chips by stalking them.

Encouraging them to rebuy is because the table is full of fish, They may be one of the fish... but playing is fun... i want them to have fun.


But i dont fool myself into thinking i've morals.

[kapw7]

I did my best and kept my mouth shut the last 2 days. (The bad beats didn't stop though). So there was that maniac at one of the tables that actually scared off the weak-passive fishes. At some point he challenged me for a heads-up and although I have never done this before, I said yes.
I was 200 down (3/6 game) until his luck stopped and then I kept hammering him until I was up $270. He disappeared from the table only to find him at a 10/20 table! Today, right now, he is playing at 0.25/0.50...

That made me feel a bit bad as he must be clearly a compulsive gambler. I can't post his full name here (N*****4 at Absolute) but PM if you think you know the guy. (Just hoping he's not thefather of 3 children that was gambling his monthly paycheck)

[benkath1]

OK, I've been playing online poker for almost 2 years. About one year as an educated not so fishy player. This never crossed my mind until I read this thread.

As I sat in church last Sunday, I thought, "Now that I don't need the poker money, maybe I should do something good with it." I like the 25% donation idea.

Thanks Wook, NH.

As far as the fish goes. I don't mind seeing them win. I guess busting out is kind of disheartening. I never frown when they re-buy. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bravos1]

this should really be in the psychology forum.... you'd get a much better response.

Personally I don't mind taking their money. I don't mind giving some of mine away either, especially when it comes back to me 3 fold /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
NH Wookie.

I do agree that the majority of the players online play for fun. (As do we all, right? RIGHT?!) I know that at any level, there are players for who the money is unimportant.

No offense to UATrewqaz, but the line that they'll lose their money anyway is a HUGE copout. That's like my friend who stole someone's CDs from on top of their car because "Someone was going to take it anyway." No - he could have taken it, left a note, and waited for the person to contact him. At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing. Somehow, I get the feeling that it would be a -EV move, though. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think we all have to find a balance. How we find that balance is up to each individual.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, you tell them this and they pay more just to prove you wrong. I can see this happening.

But if it backfires, great!

[Benoit]

Yeah fish got lucky and rivered two pair against my pocket aces on a 0.25/0.50 table. I lost like 4.5BB on that one, but same guy a few orbits later helped me win a 14 BB pot.

[donkeyradish]

I do feel bad if the fish go bust.

Unless they reload, then I feel fine.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the table, you could warn everyone that you're a better player than them and they should stop playing poker if they're losing.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, you tell them this and they pay more just to prove you wrong. I can see this happening.

[/ QUOTE ]
This can be the case with any competition. It's called trash talking and it's quite commonly employed in sports. I don't know how much it's used in live poker because I don't have much experience there. You tell your opponent you are going to beat them, they can't hold a candle to you, etc. etc. blah blah. It usually won't come off well on internet chat though, because absent the tone of voice, inflection, emphasis, facial expression and body language etc., it is likely to just come accross as just rude or condesending or otherwise unpleasant.