Ideas/Strategies to get to the Final Table

[Supersetoy]

So I've been playing the MTTs on Stars (lower buy-in, $10 and $20) for the past month now, trying to get the hang of them.

I've been getting deep in to them, but for some reason, bust within 1-2 tables of the final table (20th last night, 32nd the night before that, 25th over this past weekend, average of 450 entrants).

I understand how to build my chip stack on the bubble, when to steal in position, and I try to be in the top 30 throughout the entire tournament. When it gets down ~30 people, I'm right around the average, if not a little higher, yet somehow I end up busting in 20th-25th.

Any ideas/strategies on how to get past this and on to where the real money is? It's quite frustrating walking away +$50 for 4 hours of play. Thanks in advance.

(Surfed through the "wisdom" sticky and didn't see this issue addressed)

Sometimes all the skill in the world can't get you to the final table, sometimes you just got to get lucky and win a coinflip or suck out on someone. As long as you are playing your top game, you will get there eventually, sounds like you've got the main stuff down, just keep at it and eventually you will get that big cash.

Tournies are funny like that, you can go 10+ and not get a single cash, then win one and its like those 10 noncashes didn't exist.

[Exitonly]

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95% of the time all the skill in the world can't get you to the final table

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FYP

[Hickboy]

Posting hands would be really helpful.

Just be selectively agressive. If you run into aces with kings, there's nothing you can do. If you don't win coinflips when your stack is getting small, there's nothing you can do either. You need to catch a few key hands to make it to the final table at this stage. It's VERY tough to steal your way to a final table, since the blinds are so huge. Players are also much more willing to gamble a this stage to accumulate chips.

[betgo]

Everyone misses a lot. I think the important thing at this stage is to play to win. Seek opportunities double up by reraising, playing LAG, etc.

[KneeCo]

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It's quite frustrating walking away +$50 for 4 hours of play.

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Could be worse, you could get a job and walk away +50$ for 4 hours of work.

In all seriousness, playing the last few tables is a lot of pf and accordingly a lot of luck. Make sure you're getting in with the best of it more often than not, and don't let your stack dwindle too much while you wait for a hand. If you're having trouble with steals, don't steal with any two until you get better at it, steal with hands that at least are quasi-playable if you get called.

Make sure you have a good reason for making your moves. It took you four hours to get that deep into the thing, you can take the extra 10 seconds to think things through.

Don't lose more money trying to follow up failed steals, a lot of newer players have trouble with this I think. Not that it sounds like these things are your problem, or even that you have a problem, but I'm just throwing some general stuff out there.

If you post some hands/situations we might get a feel for your leak assuming you have one (which is to say you have plenty of leaks, we all do, but I mean one in specific that is stopping you from making the FTs).

More than anything, remember that no matter who you are, FT appearances are not common.

[Supersetoy]

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If you post some hands/situations we might get a feel for your leak assuming you have one (which is to say you have plenty of leaks, we all do, but I mean one in specific that is stopping you from making the FTs).


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I don't have the exact hand histories with me right now (I'm at work for another 40 minutes) but a few stick out in my mind:

I've played pretty tight until the final 30, doubling up when I had the best of it, then folding a lot. (decided to loosen up once in the money to try and steal some blinds...maybe this is a leak?)

One hand that's been bothering me:

Blinds 600/1200
Folded to me, 2 before the button.

I raise 3X BB with QJ suited, next player and button fold to the SB who raises to 6X. Everyone folds around to me, and I fold. The raise was basically 1/3rd of my stack, and I didn't think I had the best of it. Is this a calling situation? I was afraid of busting with this hand, or losing that many chips.

The one that basically busted me:

Blinds 800/1600 with 75 ante, avg stack ~18,000
Folded around to me on the button, ~23,000 and have been making steals with 3-5X raises in position.

I raise to 4,800 with AKo, SB (6K) folds, BB (20K) reraises all in.

To me, this is an auto call, but might this be a leak? I call, flop comes K45 (rainbow) turn 5, river 6. I'm left with a little less than 3K and bust before the blinds hit. I'm just writing this one off to luck I suppose. I wish I had more hands available, but these are the only two I remember from that point in the tournament.

First hand, you tried to take the pot, someone came over the top announcing they had a better hand, you got out of the way. But, it was a minraise, and I'd of at least called, if they raised 3x your bet or more, no prob with a fold there. Just play the flop cautiously.

Second hand, you had a great all in hand, chalk it up to bad luck.

[betgo]

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Blinds 600/1200
Folded to me, 2 before the button.

I raise 3X BB with QJ suited, next player and button fold to the SB who raises to 6X. Everyone folds around to me, and I fold. The raise was basically 1/3rd of my stack, and I didn't think I had the best of it. Is this a calling situation? I was afraid of busting with this hand, or losing that many chips.

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You can't fold to this. Even if SB has a big pair, you have a suited conenctor, position, and 4-1 pot odds to call.

What was your stack? I gather you had 18xBB at teh start of this hand. Is this correct?

Blinds 800/1600 with 75 ante, avg stack ~18,000
Folded around to me on the button, ~23,000 and have been making steals with 3-5X raises in position.

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I raise to 4,800 with AKo, SB (6K) folds, BB (20K) reraises all in.

To me, this is an auto call, but might this be a leak? I call, flop comes K45 (rainbow) turn 5, river 6. I'm left with a little less than 3K and bust before the blinds hit. I'm just writing this one off to luck I suppose. I wish I had more hands available, but these are the only two I remember from that point in the tournament.


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Very easy call. I call this if I raise UTG with AK and 2nd position pushes. I would also call with practically any hand I raised with. If you fold AK, they will resteal every time.

You are playing too scared weak/tight. You are not going to win tournaments unless you are willing to play aggressively and gamble.

[AceofSpades]

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Blinds 800/1600 with 75 ante, avg stack ~18,000
Folded around to me on the button, ~23,000 and have been making steals with 3-5X raises in position.



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I think I found your leak.

3x to 5x raises with the average stack around 18xBB is monster overkill with blinds this large. One failed blind steal because of running up against a big hand in the blinds or someone restealing will cripple you. And then you will have to push something soon, and put your stack at risk.

Usually by this time a min-raise or 2.5xBB raise will take down the blinds from someone that is willing to fold them (especially if you pick your spots/opponents carefully).

If they call it's not a disaster, you have a hand, they have a hand, and you have first shot at the pot which would gain you more than a blind steal. You have just enough, to put out a continuation bet or maybe hit the flop check and take some chips from your opponent.

Also, you may want to resteal on the rare occasion. But be very careful who you do it against/when you do it because it is a high risk play.

Joseph

ps. The AKo hand is standard, if you're not pushing it, something is wrong.

[tdarko]

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95% of the time all the skill in the world can't get you to the final table


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just now in a 100+9 three tables left, avg chip stack, my table is hyper aggressive. every hand is getting raised and reraised. we are in the money but i am looking for a hand to pump me up to where i can do some serious damage and get me to that final table.

A /images/graemlins/spade.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gif UTG i limp and the entire table limps behind me /images/graemlins/grin.gif. sometimes it just doesn't work the way you want.

[LesJ]

<<<A A UTG i limp and the entire table limps behind me . sometimes it just doesn't work the way you want. >>
That's too funny. Another thing that "happens every time . . ." the same aggressive table, raises - reraises everywhere. . never a flop seen and suddenly you catch AA in the big blind. Then the unthinkable happens. They all fold to you and all you pick up is the small blind!
Les

[JeanieJ]

Sometimes I think it's hard for people to get the hang of MTTs after playing ring games for so long. You have to know that you're not going to win every tournament you enter. Not even close. All it takes is that one big placement and you're ahead from most/all your past losses.

Tournament play takes a lot of patience. Not just within the actual game but waiting to win. It's hard going into a game and knowing you did your best to lose. Just know that eventually you WILL see the profit, even if it isn't instantly.