River Bet-Fold/Check-Call

[WillyTrailer]

Every time I bet-fold a river online I just cringe inside. I have no problems doing this live where I feel I have a better read but I'm not terribly comfortable. Here I think check-calling is good because Villain is a 24/8 player with an aggression factor around 1.5, but his river aggression is at about 1.75; he's more aggressive on the river than all other streets. I also see some merit in bet-folding.

In general, I dislike the idea of possibly being moved off the best hand on the river when I could have seen a showdown for the same amount of money I put in the pot anyway.

How do you guys play it?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="red">5 folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button raises</font>, <font color="red">1 fold</font>, <font color="blue">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (6.66 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="red">(2 players)</font>
<font color="blue">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.33 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="red">(2 players)</font>
<font color="blue">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.33 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="red">(2 players)</font>
Hero...
thanks for any thoughts,
WT

[molawn2mo]

I think the general aversion to a bet/fold line is normal but the way that I, personally, have evolved into losing that cringing thing is the logic that....

1. I value bet. Value betting is one of the stylistic trademarks that I/we/2+2ers tend to exhibit.
2. Value betting in "close" situations must, similarly, warrant that we fold in certain circumstances.
3. Therefore, if we are not folding, correctly, to certain raises then we are not value betting properly (maximally).

Said another way, you could avoid the situation entirely by not betting in any close situation but then you know that you would be leaving money on the table. Therefore, we must adopt lines to include bet calling and bet folding.

Next, in the hand in question, methinks bet/fold is the "default" for the player and the stats you describe (notwithstanding that I am a 10/20 player and have only anecdotal info on the lagginess of the 15/30 game). To look him up is no big crime either but is likely a losing prop.

Lastly, and this is a hijack, versus opponents who understand "value bettors" and who "understand" that bet/fold is a integral part of their game, one must adjust one's standards for folding against this thinking type.

[MCS]

Would he have called the flop and turn with a pocket pair 99 or below? Would he bet a T on the river (thus making check-calling okay there)?

He should have reraised preflop with KK/QQ, so I'm ignoring those. I see him calling/raising any better hand. I also see him folding if he has no pair. Betting is probably better if he has a T (KdTd?) or has a pocket pair 99 or below, but I feel like he should have gotten away from the pocket pair by now.

I believe betting is only better if he has a decent T, but he probably doesn't, and you don't want to get raised out. So I think the play is check-calling, but I also think I feel like that more than most.

Also I think if he bets you will lose to a bad ace, but whatever. You have to call anyway.

[ihardlyknowher]

I think this is a time for bet-fold (and I hate that line). But I think he will just call your bet and show you a weak Ace. If he had a strong Ace or TT he would have raised the turn.