1000BB Strategy

I do most of my playing on the party $5/10 tables, with a live home game thrown in every now and then. At the last home game I was at, I got invited by a friend to a game he described as great- full of rich lawyers, dotcommers, etc who like to throw around money gambling. The minimum buy in is $5000 - that's not a problem for me- I'm bankrolled enough that I could lose a few buyins and still play the $5/10 comfortably. However, the thing I'm a little worried about is that the blinds are only $5/5. I've never played anything close to that deep - occasionally I've had a situation where I've been at a table with one other player that has ~300 BB, but never six-seven handed where everyone has this much.

What type of strategies should I employ here to differentiate my game from a ~100 BB game? Specifically, how are these assumptions:
1) I can call more bets with (disgused) drawing hands on the turn given that my implied odds are higher
2) Set over set becomes more dangerous
3) Hands like suited two gappers are more playable
4) Position is even more of a factor.

sorry for the vagueness of this post- I'm just trying to figure out a game I don't have a lot of experience with.

[flawless_victory]

OMG, can you get me in?

[xorbie]

Just fold almost everything UTG and play almost everything on the button.

[Ulysses]

The game will likely be much less deep than you expect. It will probably feature lots of straddles, opens for many more BBs than you are used to opening for, etc.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Just fold almost everything UTG and play almost everything on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that a serious response or a joke?

[ShortySaurus]

go all in preflop when you get Aces....im assuming they don't know how to play deep stack and wont be able to get away from hadns like QQ, KK , AK preflop.....

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
go all in preflop when you get Aces....im assuming they don't know how to play deep stack and wont be able to get away from hadns like QQ, KK , AK preflop.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that a serious response or a joke?

[chekthastak]

Accept that the game is going to play much bigger. If the min buy in is $5000, I'm sure there will be a couple of guys who buy in for $10000. So don't expect a raise to $20 to get anybody of a marginal hand preflop. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the night pre flop raises are up to 100.

If you compare it to an online game the max buy in on a 25/50 game is $5000, while this is the minimum for a 5/5 game, so don't be surprised if this game plays more like a 25/50 and possibly a 50/100 as the game progresses and more money is on the table.

I'm not sure how you should adjust your game, because I have never played in a game where the buy ins relative to the blinds were so huge. But as far as the bets go preflop and as a result thereafter will be much larger than your normal 5/5 or 5/10 game.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just fold almost everything UTG and play almost everything on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that a serious response or a joke?

[/ QUOTE ]

Halfway.

[Rococo]

I don't have the link, but there was a thread over six months ago with the title "Deep Stack Theory". Virtually every respected poster on the board at that time, including El D, Flynn and T. Angelo, posted great responses. If someone has a link, it probably will help this guy out.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
The game will likely be much less deep than you expect. It will probably feature lots of straddles, opens for many more BBs than you are used to opening for, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup.

i play in a 1-2NL game uncapped usually and with stacks 700-1500, it plays more like a 5/5 game. the blind sizes mean nothing in this sort of game.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have the link, but there was a thread over six months ago with the title "Deep Stack Theory". Virtually every respected poster on the board at that time, including El D, Flynn and T. Angelo, posted great responses. If someone has a link, it probably will help this guy out.

[/ QUOTE ] link (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1133124&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1)

[MrTeddyKGB]

sorry I tried a search there a post to a colledtion of the best NL post?

[thabadguy]

I used to play a lot in deepstack game at foxwoods, all the time.
Very similar..5/5, even tho the min buyin was around 500, the avg stack on the table is over 5k.
Drawing hands become huge in such a game against such a gambling opposition. Also people probably wont be folding flush draws or oesd to a turn pot bet. You could very easily charge them around 1.5xpot to draw. Suited 2 gappers are very very playable in such a game. In fact id much rather have a drawing hand in such a game rather than Aces. Look for players who cant get rid of hands in this game and play draws against them. If they are the rich gambling type, your folding equity is considerably less than it is in an online game. I would just pay to draw..and hammer when you hit.
Hands like 47s are def worth seeing a flop with.
Such players are normally unable to muck overpairs, stacking them with a set 2 pair on the flop is very easy, no need to wait till turn or pull stuff like stop and go's, very often.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have the link, but there was a thread over six months ago with the title "Deep Stack Theory". Virtually every respected poster on the board at that time, including El D, Flynn and T. Angelo, posted great responses. If someone has a link, it probably will help this guy out.

[/ QUOTE ] link (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1133124&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic wayfare in this post.

This is an excellent situation to be in. How do you change?

Well... go slow. Go really slow. Keep the pots small while you get the hang of things.

In ultra deep stack poker (as, fundamentally, in all types of poker) reads are key.

Against some players who can't make laydowns your implied odds grow. You have a ton of wiggle room.

Here are a few key changes.

#1 - You can forget, for the most part, about your image. These guys just don't notice, and even if they do notice, AJ is just too much of a hand for them to lay down preflop to your re-raise.

#2 - Draws to the nuts go up in value. Draws to a decidedly non-nut hand (7 high flush) against aggressive opponents go down in value. These hands are sort of on a sine curve in respect to their value in relation to BB's in the stacos. At very low levels they're terrible. At 100-300 BB's they're incredible. At 300-1000 they're just not that good any more. You will not go to the felt with a 7 high flush when the felt is 1000 BB's, and you don't want to guess when your hand is good when you hit it.

The same thing occurs with these small pocket pairs.

#3 - Obviously, TPTK is still a winning hand most of the time, but pot control becomes more and more important.

#4 - Huge overbets of the pot become so much more important, because they lead to rapidly ballooning pot size. If your opponents make these moves, play close attention, not only to what they are making these moves with, but what they might be setting you up for.

#5 - Nut hands (and draws to nut hands) are worth so much more. The rest of the game revolves around making a bit of profit with the other hands, not getting burnt too bad when you have a great hand vs a nut hand, and busting the other guy when he has a great hand and you have a nut hand.

When you are in a situation where you can't lay it down and your opponent wants to keep playing, you have to exercise considerable pot control.

When you realize you are in the other situation, you have to balloon the pot as quickly as possible. This is accomplished by leading big on the early streets, or overbetting on the later streets.

Also, against some of the looser more aggressive players, don't over inflate the pot early with a marginal hand (TPTK / 2 pair) in the interest of protecting the pot. This will to you getting blown out (when a scare card hits) or paying off.

Best of luck. These games can be godsends, bank roll building, mortgage paying, new cadilliac buying god sends. They have also sent more than one promising poker player to his knees.

You have the potential to win. Unfortunately, you also have the potential to lose.

[psuasskicker]

Barring PFRs and fun stuff El D is talking about - which I think is likely - if I were sitting in a game this deep where it was consistently $25 or less to see the flops I think my VPIP would be in the range of 75%...

Sounds like a blast.

- C -

I was thinking about statistics in a situation like this- if there are going to be lots of straddling and people seeing tons of flops, can I still assume that playing ubernit wouldn't work? At first I thought that given the small blinds, I could just fold everything but superpremium hands, and then raise huge with them. However, even if I raise to something like 500 after a straddle/call, people will still be able to call, right? So should I just play poker? I'm sorry for the naive questions...I just want to make sure I'm on the right track here.

(btw, thanks for the link. Very helpful)

ps, I talked to my friend. He told me last time he was there, he got all in on a KKT flop with TT against someone who had K9 for 900 BB. So yeah, it's a good game. Though it sucked for my friend when the guy caught the case K on the turn...

[TheWorstPlayer]

I definitely don't see the proper strategy as playing very tight and then hoping to get paid off huge preflop with big pairs. Makes much more sense to try to see flops with good implied odds hands, especially in position, and then make your money postflop. How much money can you actually expect to make preflop? Especially when you have folded every hand for the last two hours?

[edge]

Well, if there's maniacal crazy preflop action all the time, you could conceivably wait until you get AA and just push. The odds are something like 1 in 250, right? So you'd have to be able to scoop 25 orbits worth of blinds in preflop action up to your push, assuming that you're never called. Otherwise, if the players are at all observant, they'll shut down when you play your one hand every six hours and only play back with AA.

Basically I'm saying that super-nit strategy probably won't work unless you're up against a bunch of crazy gamblers that will call when you play your one hand each day. Anyway, if you're up against that lineup, there's a lot more money to be made with drawing hands.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Accept that the game is going to play much bigger. If the min buy in is $5000, I'm sure there will be a couple of guys who buy in for $10000. So don't expect a raise to $20 to get anybody of a marginal hand preflop. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the night pre flop raises are up to 100.

If you compare it to an online game the max buy in on a 25/50 game is $5000, while this is the minimum for a 5/5 game, so don't be surprised if this game plays more like a 25/50 and possibly a 50/100 as the game progresses and more money is on the table.

I'm not sure how you should adjust your game, because I have never played in a game where the buy ins relative to the blinds were so huge. But as far as the bets go preflop and as a result thereafter will be much larger than your normal 5/5 or 5/10 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

its so hard to imagine buying into a home game for 10K. Do you have another 30K in your back pocket incase you get busted?

[hukilai]

Sorry if it is an offtopic, but I found it interesting.

Negreanu is going to play with other 'big boys' - Harman, Bronson & Co. The game is 300/600 NLHE, min buy-in is $100,000, but the guys might bring $1M each (taken from Danny's blog (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1130923501&archi ve=&start_from=&ucat=&), at very end of the message), so it is going to be a 3000+ BB game.

What would be the strategy here?

[psuasskicker]

its so hard to imagine buying into a home game for 10K. Do you have another 30K in your back pocket incase you get busted?

I don't know about $5 - $10k buy-in games, but there's a home game in the Richmond area that's a $2k min buy-in. Lotta money in that room and on that table...way more than $20k by the end of the night.

- C -