Check behind on the turn?

[Pharity]

Ok, chew on this one:

Villain is relatively unknown, he has played tight so far though. Thats all i know.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero?..

Everyone wants to bet?

[AaronS]

I think it is close between betting and checking, but I would probalby just go ahead and bet. Even if you get check-raised, you probably have 14 or so outs, and you'd hate to give him a free card if he has a gut-shot.

It’s a small pot, I’m checking and folding to the turn bet. What can SB have that you beat if he’s calling a raise and a bet on the flop. 99-JJ? Maybe 4 Qxs hands (QJ, QT, Q9, Q8), but that’s unlikely if he’s tight. I’d put him on AK-A10, or 99-JJ, so that’s too many hands that beat you.

My humble opinion…

[Solid_p]

Just checking the flop? That is truly weak...

I think checking this turn would be alright against a tight player (that wouldn't call without some piece of the flop) with our outs and then calling a river bet ui, since he might be bluffing because of our check / betting a weaker queen.

[Nick Royale]

I'd hate to get check/raised here, but I bet this turn not expecting to get check/raised very often even when he has us beat. Since I'm planing to invest at least 1 more BB in this pot I think it's better to do that on the turn. The only hands check/raising here is a flush or AQ assuming villain is tight. Sometimes a lone A/images/graemlins/club.gif will check/raise too. The read is vague and if villain isn't this tight the bet is correct for other reasons.

The preflop call often suggest villain isn't einstein and I think we should take the opportunity to collect calls from a weaker fd. I take a free sd UI.

[Solid_p]

I agree that it's a bet most of the time. But would you check if you had a good read of him as tight? Or taggish?

[Pharity]

Ok, what if he is BB instead, and he is a solid TAG. Same thing?

[Pharity]

But is really a gut shot that likely? It seems to me that free cards isn't that big of a threat.

[Solid_p]

[ QUOTE ]
But is really a gut shot that likely? It seems to me that free cards isn't that big of a threat.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a small pot, they aren't much of a threat. So giving a free cards is not that bad here. But if the player isn't so tight, you might be missing a value bet.

[molawn2mo]

2nd pair w/ TK + 2nd nutflush draw = value bet especially since we can easily stomach a raise (drawing dead to only A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ)

[Pharity]

Ok, like i said to Nick: What if he was in BB instead, and that he is a solid TAG. Still a clear value bet?

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
It’s a small pot, I’m checking and folding to the turn bet. What can SB have that you beat if he’s calling a raise and a bet on the flop. 99-JJ? Maybe 4 Qxs hands (QJ, QT, Q9, Q8), but that’s unlikely if he’s tight. I’d put him on AK-A10, or 99-JJ, so that’s too many hands that beat you.

My humble opinion…

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really, really weak-tight. I strongly encourage you to:

1. Realize that your opponent's play weak cards, and often their reasoning process would make no sense to you.

2. Realize that hand values become magnified in heads-up pots. This means opponents will often never fold any pair.

3. Appreciate that getting maximum value out of marginal (like, non-top-pair) hands, particularly in heads-up pots, is one of the keys to becoming an expert player. If you move up levels, you will find yourself in situations like this a whole lot, and you need to be looking for value in situations like this.

So, yes, we need to bet this flop.

[W. Deranged]

This is a very straightforward turn bet, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

1. We often have the best hand here.

2. Villain is often calling with inferior hands in a heads-up pot (QJ, JJ, a worse crub draw, etc...)

3. We have tons of equity here even when behind. The consequence of this is that getting raised is not that expensive; if we have 25% equity in this pot on average when behind, getting raised only costs us an extra .75 BB effectively. (In general, the times the "check behind" maxim is most applicable is situations where you have a moderate number of outs--usually like 4-7--which, though, are enough that you would have to call a raise; the fewer outs, the more effectively expensive the raise).

The only times I really like a check here is when we have a reason to believe villain will fold to a turn bet but bluff the river, and he has a very small number of outs against us. (I also like checking if villain has a turn agg. factor of like 14 or something, and we more or less know we're getting check-raised).

I think the really interesting question about this hand is whether you have a value bet unimproved on the river.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, like i said to Nick: What if he was in BB instead, and that he is a solid TAG. Still a clear value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes

[ErrantNight]

yes

[ErrantNight]

he misread the hand, but he's talking about the turn

[ErrantNight]

the bet is for value. your large equity protects you from a turn c/r.