A4s slowplay?

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Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (13 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero?

The Button is about 18/10/2

I like the slowplay on the flop. I will entertain explanations of why this is bad. My thinking is that I am ahead of every hand except 1 at this point. More importantly, all hands are drawing almost dead. Also, I have excellent position because I am behind the preflop raiser. It's an automatic check I think. Once the player before me calls, I decide I will wait until the turn to make a move. I am positive the button likes his hand and will bet on the turn so I hope get at least 1 big bet out of the other player.

My big question is on the turn. Do you 4 bet this. I think the Button can sniff out the slowplay with the check raise, but he still 3 bets. Only 2 hands beat me, but he is a thinking player so I just call.

On the river do you bet/call, bet/raise, check/call?

[JimNashe]

I fold or raise this hand preflop, but if I've called it, I'll call the raise too I guess. I like the flop and turn play, except I would cap the turn. Now in your situation I would bet the river and call a raise, while if you had capped the turn and came out betting on the river, you could consider folding to a raise.

[jakbse]

I would never slowplay the flop in a raised pot. Especially not with trips. I might consider it with a set in a small pot, which is a stronger holding in a situation where it is less to loose. In this case I think the decision is if you should bet into the preflop raiser hoping to trap SB and MP2 for two cold, or if you should check raise for value. Personally I would bet into CO hoping for a raise since he is quite aggresive. I have been outdrawn with hands like this one too many times to even consider slowplaying. Looking forward to see what others have to saly.

[crovax4444]

I wouldn't have limped in with A4s with only 1 limper before. I know you have good position, but I don't think it's enough

I hate slowplaying, as you couldn't be sure that the button would have bet out.

I don't think button is on a flush draw, otherwise he wouldn't have 3-bet on the turn.

I'd raise/call the river

[siccjay]

I don't mind the checkraise but I would do it on the flop and trap MP2 for more money. If Button 3bets I cap MOST of the time.

I wouldn't give Villian credit for a boat until he 3bets/caps the turn.

[2+2 wannabe]

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you could consider folding to a raise.

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no

[Aaron_]

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you could consider folding to a raise.

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no

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But seriously... no. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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you could consider folding to a raise.

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no

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But seriously... no. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Agreed. This hand has to go to the showdown barring a disaster (i.e K turn K river).

I seriously like the slowplay here. There are 2 players + me going to the turn. THere are no draws and at best they have a combined total of 4 outs assuming they both have pocket pairs (otherwise they will need to hit runner runner which is about 4 outs again at best). I can't recall exactly why, but me read on the pf raiser is that he really is strong especially with the flop bet. I am 95% sure he will bet the turn. Since the other player called the flop bet, I am pretty sure he will call 1 turn bet and I can trap him for 1 more. Most of the time I am SO far ahead in this hand it is ridiculous, and if I am going to get sucked out on, it was bound to happy anyway (i.e pocket pairs filling up) so I might as well extract as many big bets as possible.

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I fold or raise this hand preflop, but if I've called it, I'll call the raise too I guess. I like the flop and turn play, except I would cap the turn. Now in your situation I would bet the river and call a raise, while if you had capped the turn and came out betting on the river, you could consider folding to a raise.

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

no................

why are you folding or raising with a limper in front of you too?

Edit: I also bet the flop and donk the turn given previous action

[PJM1206]

I think slow playing here is fine. There are no draws.

Betting into the raiser would probably drive out the first 2 players and although check raising the flop is probably good you may be able to trap the 2 limpers for a big bet vs the small bet by waiting for the turn.

I am not sure what 2 hands you think beats you. Clearly KK. Although possible but not likely would be JJ and 77. I would have played the turn as you did. I would think he is holding KK or AK. I would check the river and call.

[Aaron W.]

I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

I cap that turn.

[McGahee]

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I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

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Yeah, go nuts on the flop. His turn 3-bet does concern me a little though because hero is telling him he has trips and he doesn't seem to care. I would call the 3-bet and bet/call the river. I don't know if that makes any sense, but 5 BB's between the turn &amp; river sounds about right. I don't think you're ever good when you cap the turn and get raised on the river.

I think I would raise the flop. Your hand is strong enough to slowplay, but the important question is will it make you more money than the one BB you are passing up on the flop. Will button bet the turn? Will MP2 call even one bet on the turn?

As played I'm not so sure about the turn river. Villian seems non-retarded so he has to know you have a 4. Though I am always suprised how bad even people with decent stats play. So i'm not reallys ure.

[bozlax]

Just for clarification, Nick, on the flop you're behind 2 hands. K4 is unlikely, but it exists. On the Turn you're behind KK/JJ/K4/J4 and on the river you're behind KK/JJ/77/K4/J4/74/x/images/graemlins/heart.gifx/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

I prefer to go nuts on the flop with low trips (as opposed to a low set). You've got the one likely dead-money hand (MP2) trapped, the pot is worth fighting for now, and I don't count on Button continuation-betting anything on the turn that doesn't improve his hand (even AA will sometimes get scared on a paired board). If I just called the flop, I would lead/3-bet the turn, and call a cap. If the turn is capped, I'll check/call the river.

The way you played the flop, I cap the turn. He might think you're on a heart draw, he might think the J paired your ace's kicker so his AA/AK is still good, etc. Then bet/call the river.

[Buckmulligan]

It's ridiculous how much equity you forfeited on the flop and turn. You give up a lot by not check raising the flop, and a WHOLE lot by checkraising the turn. If button checks behind on the turn, you lose 2-3 bets.

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Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

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His 3 bet really concerned me. He was a solid player and my c/r on the turn looks like slowplayed 4 (I think).

I bet call the river only to find out that I was dead to KK from the beginning. Just one of those hands. I was having a really bad run of cards that day and getting pretty pessimistic. I had about 5-6 other hands like this one and was just spewing big bets. I think thats why I didn't cap the turn. That and I just felt like he was really strong. I really thought he had JJ or KK. Unfortunately I was right.

[milesdyson]

don't be inconsistent street-to-street. if you chose not to cap the turn because you felt he had KK/JJ, then you should check the river. it didn't change your hand at all, so why would you stop and go?

[TomBrooks]

FLOP:

I don't thinnk this is a slowplay hand. You slowplay a hand when the pot is small and when you have the near mortal nuts and you want to let someone else improve to make a second best hand. Your hand is very vulnerable.

I think the best thing may be to bet into the Button who raised preflop. Maybe if the Button raises you can knock some people out who have a pocket pair. If another of their card comes in they make a boat. Anyone who has a King is staying in and if another King comes your're drawing to one out. If raised on the flop, reraise and if capped by Button, consider that he might have KK and be winning. You might as well find this out on the cheap streets if you can.

PS: You also want to knock out or charge any same suit card holders that might be thinking about staying in. The pot is already pretty big and you probably won't knock everyone out right away anyway - try to win it.


RIVER: I check/call fearing KK from the Button. The third heart speaks adds to the argument against a bet, although it's not very likely someone made a flush.

[Aaron W.]

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I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

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Yeah, go nuts on the flop. His turn 3-bet does concern me a little though because hero is telling him he has trips and he doesn't seem to care. I would call the 3-bet and bet/call the river. I don't know if that makes any sense, but 5 BB's between the turn &amp; river sounds about right. I don't think you're ever good when you cap the turn and get raised on the river.

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You're right that 5 BB doesn't seem to make much sense. If you get raised on the river, the likelihood of you losing is the same whether there were three or four bets on the turn. So you're really asking yourself how good you think your hand is on the turn. If you don't think your hand is good on the turn (not capping), check-call the river.

By the way, my wording was a little too strong in the quote at the top. If you cap the flop and he raises you on the turn, you need to consider only calling. What I had meant to convey was that after capping the flop, you must lead again on the turn.

[W. Deranged]

Check-raising this flop would be really hot...

[Rev. Good Will]

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Check-raising this flop would be really hot...

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agreed, I'm with the "cap the turn" crowd as well