Was I way out of line?

[Clarkmeister]

Hand from a long time ago, Mirage 6-12

2 limpers to aggressive cutoff who raises. I look behind. Both blinds are ready to call. I call with 7d7s. Everyone else calls. 6 see the flop.

FLOP: Qd 8h 4d

Checked to cutoff who bets. I raise, Loose Old Lady in the BB calls, cutoff calls. All others fold. 3 see the turn. 8.75BB in the pot.

TURN: [Qd 8h 4d] 6c

Checked to me, I bet, BB calls, cutoff folds. Heads up.

Hows my play so far and whats the plan on the river?

[Inthacup]

whats the plan on the river?

Hit a non-diamond 5 and take the pot? Sounds like a good plan to me.


Seriously...you didn't mention whether "Little old lady on a motorized cart" was passive or aggressive. She could have a flush draw or AQ depending on her style. In any case, I think you should check behind on the river. You're not going to get paid off too often when golden oldie misses her flush. I'm certainly not the player you are, so I don't know...but do you often see Old Ladies call 2 bets cold on the flop with A8 then fold for 1 bet when heads up on the river? If so, bet out, if not, check behind.


Hows my play so far

Very Clarkmeister-esque

[Bob T.]

Hows my play so far and whats the plan on the river?


I like your play so far, you eliminated the players who probably had overcards to your hand, so you have improved your chance to win significantly.

Loose old lady's are tough opponents for me, because it seems like they are usually fairly passive, and tend to call with hands that I would be three betting with. I think that unless a non diamond 5 comes on the river, I would check behind her.

[Clarkmeister]

I don't want to bias anyone. I know some of you must not like this, lets here from both sides before I post the results and people start changing their minds one way or the other.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

pre-flop, fine.

Flop was sketchy. With all those players, someone likely has a better hand than you. Of course you might be able to get a pair of eights to fold by raising, but with the raise, someone might check/call with queens. If you made a mistake, it was not folding on the flop. I guess it depends on your read of the others and whether you want to take a chance on a high variance play.

Turn is fine, it looks like BB is on flush draw, and cutoff's check indicates he has no pair.

al

[Robk]

Preflop: This is fine.

Flop:
1. Since the raiser is LA, he very likely doesn't have much of a hand, but will bet about 100% of the time anyway.
2. This flop is very unlikely to hit anyone. I would expect you to have the best hand a reasonable portion of the time. Your opponents probably aren't astute enough to realize that your flop raise could be made on lesser values because of the LA raiser. They may fold a better pocket pair or an 8.
3. The pot is fairly large. You're risking about 2BB (when you follow up on the turn) to win about 7, so you're getting about to 4:1. (I'm rounding in your favor because you may not need to spend the turn bet every time, ie if the flop is reraised or several people call.) So you only have to win about 20% of the time for you to break even. Hot and cold, you have about 10% equity if you are against a pair and a diamond >7, and 15% equity if against a pair with no diamond or a diamond < 7.

To summarize: I think that the times you have the best hand(and it holds up) + the times you don't have the best hand but get a better hand to fold on the flop or turn + the times you don't have the best hand but improve to it > 20%. So it looks like an good play to me.

[bad beetz]

that old lady's got to at least have an 8. I hope she didn't call two cold with a gutshot like JT, but you beat that. I don't think she'll fold an 8 either.

maybe she will though, so I guess you have to bet the river if there's even a remote chance she'll fold an 8, although the chance of her having a queen is darn good. I hope you caught a 5 on the river.

At least you read the cutoff right.

[Clarkmeister]

I actually posted this hand a long time ago on these forums in the following thread:

http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=485 27&page=&view=&sb=&o=

I still am not sure if it was a good play on the flop. I do think it is interesting how the responses are completely opposite the responses I got a year and a half ago when I initially posted this.

Anyways, for those who don't follow the link (and I hope that you do), The river was a 9 making the final board [Qd 8h 4d 6c] 9s. The LOL bet into me and I folded.

[Robk]

I disagree completely with most of the old reponses. They all fail to consider the size of the pot, and the fact that you will have the best hand by the river between 10-15% of the time. I can't believe Dynasty flamed you for calling with 77 preflop.

[elysium]

hi clark
i posted a thread last night but it apparently didn't go through. i was saying that if you perhaps picked up a tell from the youngin' in the BB, you'd be doing better than me because all i see are steely blue. i said bet if your read was good, but that it looked like cherry pie tomorrow to me clark.

[Clarkmeister]

Rob,

I suspect Dynasty today would disagree with Dynasty of 1.5 years ago regarding my preflop play on this hand. We've all grown since then, I think.

I still think this is a pretty marginal play. Make my hand 88 and the flop Q74 then it becomes much more clear. But in the end, I probabaly am OK with the line I took. Its close though.