$55's... I don't see any good coming from this

[bigt439]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t2705)
BB (t165)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1400)
MP1 (t990)
Hero (t970)
MP3 (t970)
CO (t900)
Button (t900)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t75</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>.

Do you?

[runner4life7]

i fold easily

[applejuicekid]

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i fold easily

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[MegaBet]

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i'm going to see a flop easily

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[RoyalLance]

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i fold easily

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I agree. Gap Concept says this is a fold.

[applejuicekid]

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i'm going to see a flop easily

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Interesting...do you call with AJ as well? I am just curious.

[bawcerelli]

let it go. no reason to fight with a mediocre hand.

[MegaBet]

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let it go. no reason to fight with a mediocre hand.

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lol, this is NOT a mediocre hand! What range do you put villain on? If you fold AQ to a raise of 75, you're missing out on a LOT of opportunities to accumulate chips early.

[durron597]

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let it go. no reason to fight with a mediocre hand.

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lol, this is NOT a mediocre hand! What range do you put villain on? If you fold AQ to a raise of 75, you're missing out on a LOT of opportunities to accumulate chips early.

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Total agree with Megabet. I fold AJ though.

[applejuicekid]

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What range do you put villain on?

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AJ+, TT+ seems like a reasonable range

maybe you could go as loose as: 88+, AT+, KQ

A raise to 75 is a fairly large raise and it is coming from UTG+1. My range in his shoes is KK+, AK so I'm not too eager to play AQ in this spot.

[durron597]

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A raise to 75 is a fairly large raise and it is coming from UTG+1. My range in his shoes is KK+, AK so I'm not too eager to play AQ in this spot.

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Oh come on, you don't raise QQ here? Do you consider yourself on the tight end of the spectrum?

[MegaBet]

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What range do you put villain on?

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AJ+, TT+ seems like a reasonable range

maybe you could go as loose as: 88+, AT+, KQ

A raise to 75 is a fairly large raise and it is coming from UTG+1. My range in his shoes is KK+, AK so I'm not too eager to play AQ in this spot.

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You're right in thinking that KK+, AK SHOULD be the range for villain in his position, but this is a $55 so I'm not going to automatically give him credit for it. Also, assuming you are the only caller, you have position on HIM thoughout the hand. Depending on how well you play post-flop, this is a definite "call and see" scenario.

[bawcerelli]

i should have noted that when choosing one style of play over another, i generally lean towards weak-tight. so it's an easy fold for a weak-tightie.

[applejuicekid]

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A raise to 75 is a fairly large raise and it is coming from UTG+1. My range in his shoes is KK+, AK so I'm not too eager to play AQ in this spot.

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Oh come on, you don't raise QQ here? Do you consider yourself on the tight end of the spectrum?

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I wouldn't raise to 75 here with QQ. But let us say I did, would that make calling with AQ more attractive?

[applejuicekid]

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What range do you put villain on?

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AJ+, TT+ seems like a reasonable range

maybe you could go as loose as: 88+, AT+, KQ

A raise to 75 is a fairly large raise and it is coming from UTG+1. My range in his shoes is KK+, AK so I'm not too eager to play AQ in this spot.

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You're right in thinking that KK+, AK SHOULD be the range for villain in his position, but this is a $55 so I'm not going to automatically give him credit for it. Also, assuming you are the only caller, you have position on HIM thoughout the hand. Depending on how well you play post-flop, this is a definite "call and see" scenario.

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I agree that seeing a flop in position with AQ against an average $55 is a good situation to be in. I would like calling here much more if I was on the button, but even then I would still fold most of the time. The main thing I don't like about calling here is if the villain's range is tight, you are often times far behind. However, if his range is loose you will end up folding the best hand on the flop a lot of the time. Will the times you outplay him postflop make up for this?

[MegaBet]

What hands make you "way behind"? AA, KK, AK, QQ...that's it.

[durron597]

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I wouldn't raise to 75 here with QQ. But let us say I did, would that make calling with AQ more attractive?

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No, I'm just saying. And again, you are definitely tighter than the average $55er.

What would you do with QQ?

[applejuicekid]

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I wouldn't raise to 75 here with QQ. But let us say I did, would that make calling with AQ more attractive?

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No, I'm just saying. And again, you are definitely tighter than the average $55er.

What would you do with QQ?

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Raise to 65 /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Truth is I forgot to add QQ, but should have included it.

[applejuicekid]

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What hands make you "way behind"? AA, KK, AK, QQ...that's it.

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And what range would you put a tight $55er on? These hands make up a large portion of such a range.

[durron597]

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What hands make you "way behind"? AA, KK, AK, QQ...that's it.

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And what range would you put a tight $55er on? These hands make up a large portion of such a range.

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Nobody every said UTG+1 was tight. In fact he's already won a 400 chip pot, do we know what he did it with?

[bigt439]

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What hands make you "way behind"? AA, KK, AK, QQ...that's it.

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And what range would you put a tight $55er on? These hands make up a large portion of such a range.

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Nobody every said UTG+1 was tight. In fact he's already won a 400 chip pot, do we know what he did it with?

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No, sorry. Starting to 8-table, still working on picking up reads.

Obviously AQ is a good hand and there are obvious arguments for calling (i.e. it's good to play good hands), but here is what I don't like:

- it's offsuit
- I'm not guaranteed to see a flop if it's raised behind me
- while I have position on him, I won't on anyone else that comes in
- it's going to be expensive to decipher c-bets from value bets from dominating hands (e.g. if he leads out an A or Q high flop, it's going to get expensive to define his hand)
- he's utg+1 and his range is tight
- if we both miss, he takes it down more often than I do because of betting inertia

To me it's looking like, if I hit I don't know where I am and it's expensive to find out, and if I don't I often lose the pot. But hey, obviously I'm not totally sure of what to do or else I wouldn't have posted this.

[MegaBet]

Trust me, a guy calling a raise is much scarier to the raiser (excluding AA) than you give him credit for. He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk).

[durron597]

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He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk).

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This is something a lot of people fail to realize. We are just as capable out outplaying our opponents as they are of outplaying us, and in this case we have a good (but not great) hand and position.

[downtown]

If I had a read that the villain was solid or tight, I would be apt to lay this down. If I had played a lot of games with her, I should have some idea here. Even if you've got 8 tables open, you have time to open the hand history if you're not sure how she got those chips.

If I just assumed it was an average 55er I would call here, and like others here, I'd likely lay down AJ. It's close, a fold isn't terrible, but you might be passing on some EV v. an average villain.

[bigt439]

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Trust me, a guy calling a raise is much scarier to the raiser (excluding AA) than you give him credit for. He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk).

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This is a very good point.

[inyaface]

I don't like the raise to 75
I might fold.

If you assume raiser isn't a donk then shouldn't you also assume that he has KK+ or AK as you earlier said he "should" have to raise 75 in that spot?

You can't have it both ways - that is to say you can't say hey it's a 55 so the raiser could have any kind of donkish hand and then from the other side of your mouth say that he will "probably be thinking the same as you". Would be nice though if your could have your cake and eat it too.

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I wouldn't raise to 75 here with QQ.

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No, I'm just saying. And again, you are definitely tighter than the average $55er.

What would you do with QQ?

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Raise to 65 /images/graemlins/smile.gif.


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ROFLMAO

[ChrisV]

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This is something a lot of people fail to realize. We are just as capable out outplaying our opponents as they are of outplaying us, and in this case we have a good (but not great) hand and position.

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Wow. I only came back into this thread to see why it wasn't dead yet and I see respected posters defending the call.

The typical situation is flop xxx and a 2/3 to full pot bet by villain. How do you plan to "outplay" him now? Call again?

I call raises with AQ on early levels sometimes, but only when I'm pretty sure they don't represent a good hand (e.g. minraises), or if the raiser is in late position, or with a big positional advantage. This kind of large size raise in early position is right out, especially with a bunch of guys still to act behind me.

I fold here. Not saying that calling is flat out wrong but it is quite risky.

I personally like to keep it simple when multitabling which is a big part of why I fold. Often the raiser will have AA, KK, QQ or AK which could lead to me losing a big pot, maybe my stack. Even if the raiser has a lesser hand I don't know how often I could hope to win a big pot myself to make up for the losses. I just can't see realistically winning a big pot that often from what, AJ, AT? I just don't see it. Call me weak tight if you like but I'm quite comfortable with folding here.

[durron597]

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I personally like to keep it simple when multitabling which is a big part of why I fold.

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This is an important consideration, probably the biggest one encouraging a fold.

I think this is a difficult-to-play yet +EV call.

[tigerite]

Like ChrisV, I fold. Maybe I might, just might, call it on the button or in the CO, but even that's damn rare.

[junkmail3]

I think folding this in level 1, MP, to a pretty big raise (45 is not too big, and I'd call that), is pretty standard.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
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This is something a lot of people fail to realize. We are just as capable out outplaying our opponents as they are of outplaying us, and in this case we have a good (but not great) hand and position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I only came back into this thread to see why it wasn't dead yet and I see respected posters defending the call.

The typical situation is flop xxx and a 2/3 to full pot bet by villain. How do you plan to "outplay" him now? Call again?

I call raises with AQ on early levels sometimes, but only when I'm pretty sure they don't represent a good hand (e.g. minraises), or if the raiser is in late position, or with a big positional advantage. This kind of large size raise in early position is right out, especially with a bunch of guys still to act behind me.

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Agreed. Rags fall, you're behind to nearly everything. A Queen falls, you're behind to AA-QQ. An A falls, you're behind to AK. You really need AQ specifically on the flop to feel confident about playing this hand.

Although I guess you could "outplay" your opponent. Some dude made exactly this call against me last night -- my AK EP, his AQ MP. With AJT on the board, he pushes. I let it go and he proudly shows me his AQ. Don't know if he was a donk or an expert.

i can't fold fast enough

[sofere]

i can fold fast enough.

[kyro]

Sometimes I fold. Sometimes I call. Once I pushed. That was good for a laugh.

But given it's a $55 (not a $10 when I pushed), it was for 75 chips (not 45 where I might call), I fold quickly.