Two questions for people who are good at math

[Landon_McFly]

I have a couple of questions and my brain hurts,to a post I read so here ya go...

I read in a post today that when playing heads up you should always limp in the small blind or raise it (the button) The reason being is that you're getting 2:1 odds.

Quesion 1: what odds are you getting if you're the BB? This is something that I just can't wrap my brain around right now. I think Sklansky goes over something like this in TPFAP, and maybe it's just a brain fart, but aren't you getting better odds if you are the BB since you already have more invested?

Question 2: Nevermind, just figured it out myself. Only 1 question

[KenProspero]

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what odds are you getting if you're the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not completely sure I understand your question, but I'll take a shot at it.

When you're the big blind (or small blind) and it's your turn to bet, it costs you less than any other player in the game to see the flop.

Example -- Blinds are $2 and $4 in a limit game.

First player raises (i.e., bets $8). The other players around the table have the following choices -- call (bet 8), raise (bet 12) or fold.

Now, let's say 2 others bet, so the pot is now $30 (3 $8 bets = 24. plus SB $2 plus BB $4), and it comes to the dealer. The dealer's choice is to bet $8 against a $30 pot, raise ($12) or fold. Ignoring other factors (such as position for the rest of the hand), dealer is therefore being offered 2.75-1 odds to call.

Let's say the dealer folds.

Now, it's up to SB -- SB's choice is Call ($6) Raise ($10) or fold. Looking only at the call option. The fact that SB has already put $2 in the pot is only relevant to the decision to the extent that it costs less to call or raise (the $2 is in the pot, and there's nothing SB can do to take it out). In any event, as there's $30 in the pot, the pot odds for a call to SB are 5-1. Assume SB folds.

Moving to BB. BB's choices are call ($4) raise ($8) or fold. Again with a pot of $30, BB's present pot odds are 7.5-1 (plus, in the example, BB can close the betting).

assume 2-4 blinds, the small is putting in an extra 2 to win 6, so those are nice 3 to 1 odds. but you need to limp with some good stuff (don't overdo it) to disguise your bad hands (i.e. if you don't the big blind will just put in big raise) and it's a good way to get a death blow. let your opponent get aggressive when you have fantastic hand.

on the second part, the big blind has infinite odds at that point as he can put up nothing more. if you choose to raise another 4, then if the small blind calls then you have 3 to 1 odds.... in general i think you'd rather put more $$$$$ on good hands at 3 to 1. infite odds are but your EV can be higher with a bet.

harrington (i think) is huge on raising 5X out of big blind (obviously no-limit). he makes a huge deal out of the fact that the while the big blind acts last pre-flop, it acts first on the flop, turn, river. so you need to get your opponent to fold so you aren't out of position (i hope i got that correct).

[Landon_McFly]

thanks for the reply.

You refreshed my memory of how the opt odds on the button work, but what about when you are the BB?

For instance, if the small blind min raises, should you call if you're the BB? What are your odds then? You said infinite odds if you're the BB, but I'm assuming you mean because you can just check and see the flop for free if the SB limps. What I am talking about is what if the small blind raises.

I've been playing a bunch of heads up over the last couple of days, and calling min raises out of the BB is definately the most confusing thing for me. Due to the fact that I'm out of position, and it seems that I'm not half as sure how to play the hand.

I guess I need to buy HOH1&2

Any more help explaining how to play out of the BB would be great. Also, when should I raise out of the BB? I do over 3/4 of my raising out of the SB, and I was wondering what % of hands I should be raising out of the BB.

I know these questions might be purely situational, but give em a shot if you have time. I'm really trying to improve my game.

TY,
Lando

yeah, harrington 2 is great on heads-up play... and as i said, he feels strongly that you should be raising out of BB alot as you'll be out of position later.

but as to your exact question. 2/4 blinds. when the other guy raises, they'll be $10 in pot, $4 for you to call (my math was off earlier - thought it went 2/4/6 but it goes 2/4/8). so you'll be getting 5 to 2. you'd have to make a judgement as to how often your opponent raises from small blind. if he barely does at all, then let him take it with his A9 or whatever (A9 is great hand heads-up)

i recommend harrington's books highly... probably will get russell fox too, and maybe phil gordon little green book.