At Durron's suggestion...27s

[pooh74]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

MP (t2620)
Button (t3515)
Hero (t1330)
BB (t5070)
UTG (t965)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero

me likey 93!!

[splashpot]

Yea, I go ahead and push.

[pineapple888]

With blinds that high, 5-handed? Gotta push.

[pooh74]

what % of hands do you think villain calls with here?

even if he calls with top 40%, Im still +.7ev...

[splashpot]

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what % of hands do you think villain calls with here?

even if he calls with top 40%, Im still +.7ev...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he calls with top 25% at most. Probably less than that.

[pineapple888]

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what % of hands do you think villain calls with here?

even if he calls with top 40%, Im still +.7ev...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he calls with top 25% at most. Probably less than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, probably top 20%. You knock him back into the crowd if he loses.

[pooh74]

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what % of hands do you think villain calls with here?

even if he calls with top 40%, Im still +.7ev...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he calls with top 25% at most. Probably less than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, probably top 20%. You knock him back into the crowd if he loses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...I pushed. Durron? Why?

I'm not so sure, unless you know BB is a pushover. It doesn't really hurt him to call here, and if he suspects you of pushing a wide range (which you have to be doing) I think his minimum calling range is getting close to break-even (he should be calling around top 80% if he thinks you're pushing any two).

Of course, it's a big assumption that he'll put that much though into it, but I've seen big stacks call here with pretty terrible (relatively) hands. What happened on your BB the hand before (I'd have been looking for an opportunity to get in there, personally)?

[splashpot]

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(he should be calling around top 80% if he thinks you're pushing any two)

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Are you joking?

[tigerite]

Yes, I push.

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what % of hands do you think villain calls with here?

even if he calls with top 40%, Im still +.7ev...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he calls with top 25% at most. Probably less than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll be getting better than 2-1 on a call against a relatively desperate SB. I'd call with more than 25%, though I'm not sure I'm calling with more than 40% (even though I probably should be). Any pair, any ace, any king, most queens, and a lot of connected/suited stuff.

[tigerite]

I don't think you should be, actually, maybe by pot odds (i.e. chipEV) but not by ICM (i.e. $EV). I suspect him calling more than 40% would be wrong even if he put you on any two. Not sure though, not done the maths, just going on intuition there.

[durron597]

I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

As villain, I'm folding Q2 in a millisecond.

I don't know that hero knows to push any two.

[durron597]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

As villain, I'm folding Q2 in a millisecond.

I don't know that hero knows to push any two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Q2o is a +0.5% call if the BB thinks that the SB is pushing (22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s +,76s)

[curtains]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

As villain, I'm folding Q2 in a millisecond.

I don't know that hero knows to push any two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a good player, Q2o is a pretty easy call in my book. So in a high buyin tournament, I would call with Q2 almost every time...in a lower one, your opponents don't push so often, so folding becomes more reasonable.

[pineapple888]

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Against a good player, Q2o is a pretty easy call in my book. So in a high buyin tournament, I would call with Q2 almost every time...in a lower one, your opponents don't push so often, so folding becomes more reasonable.

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This is a 27, of course, so we agree in this case.

Anyway, the point remains that I have to have a specific read to call here with Q2o. There are plenty of clueless players at high buyins.

[pineapple888]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

As villain, I'm folding Q2 in a millisecond.

I don't know that hero knows to push any two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Q2o is a +0.5% call if the BB thinks that the SB is pushing (22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s +,76s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, now we're into the infinite loop "if he knows that I know that I should push any two, then I'll wait for a premium hand and double up" etc., etc.

Regardless, at the 27s, I'm pushing. Darn it.

[The once and future king]

[ QUOTE ]
Q2o is a +0.5% call if the BB thinks that the SB is pushing (22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s +,76s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea but why bother. Ok its nice to get your .5% EV yea baby they all add up, but I like my stack and and dont know that heros range is T6o etc. I fold coz I want my stack to be as big as possible when I push it in dreckly. I know there is a load of +EV opps to come so am not to bothered about declining a call with Q2.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this guy wasnt a loose caller...plus I have a 2+2er to my right so I dont know how many opportunities I am going to get...Ill give ya a "its close" in other situations, but I had only shown good(ish) hands up til then and hadnt revealed my true nature yet.

[durron597]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this guy wasnt a loose caller...plus I have a 2+2er to my right so I dont know how many opportunities I am going to get...Ill give ya a "its close" in other situations, but I had only shown good(ish) hands up til then and hadnt revealed my true nature yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that villian is folding the worst queens getting 2:1 then it's fine.

[pooh74]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this guy wasnt a loose caller...plus I have a 2+2er to my right so I dont know how many opportunities I am going to get...Ill give ya a "its close" in other situations, but I had only shown good(ish) hands up til then and hadnt revealed my true nature yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that villian is folding the worst queens getting 2:1 then it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would there against an unkown.

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this guy wasnt a loose caller...plus I have a 2+2er to my right so I dont know how many opportunities I am going to get...Ill give ya a "its close" in other situations, but I had only shown good(ish) hands up til then and hadnt revealed my true nature yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that villian is folding the worst queens getting 2:1 then it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would there against an unkown.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's bad

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Q2o is a +0.5% call if the BB thinks that the SB is pushing (22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s +,76s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea but why bother. Ok its nice to get your .5% EV yea baby they all add up, but I like my stack and and dont know that heros range is T6o etc. I fold coz I want my stack to be as big as possible when I push it in dreckly. I know there is a load of +EV opps to come so am not to bothered about declining a call with Q2.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Sure it's the right play, but I'm not gonna make it."

[pooh74]

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I just think that pushing garbage into the biggest stack on the table with barely more than 3x is probably -EV, on instinct.

ICM says it starts to become -EV at around top 55%. If you're the big stack, are you folding Q2? I think I call with it if I know the SB has a wide push range, just because hero's stack is too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this guy wasnt a loose caller...plus I have a 2+2er to my right so I dont know how many opportunities I am going to get...Ill give ya a "its close" in other situations, but I had only shown good(ish) hands up til then and hadnt revealed my true nature yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that villian is folding the worst queens getting 2:1 then it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would there against an unkown.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's bad

[/ QUOTE ]

If stacks are in neighborhood of 3-2-2-1-1, and I am the 3, I want to stay at a 3 because of the blinds...I like staying there especially when the 2 small stacks fold and I have the 2s (mid-stacks) in the blinds...this is a seperate thread though. If you're to my right, Ill call though...;)

[The once and future king]

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Q2o is a +0.5% call if the BB thinks that the SB is pushing (22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s +,76s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea but why bother. Ok its nice to get your .5% EV yea baby they all add up, but I like my stack and and dont know that heros range is T6o etc. I fold coz I want my stack to be as big as possible when I push it in dreckly. I know there is a load of +EV opps to come so am not to bothered about declining a call with Q2.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Sure it's the right play, but I'm not gonna make it."

[/ QUOTE ]

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dont know that heros range is T6o etc

[/ QUOTE ]

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I know there is a load of +EV opps to come so am not to bothered about declining a call with Q2

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant you read?

[bawcerelli]

i think you have to push this b/c even if everyone folds to you next hand, you won't be able to push without a good hand b/c UTG (who will be the BB) will be calling just about anything. and if someone knocks out the UTG soon to be BB on the next hand, the BB will skip one player and be that much closer to you, so you have to steal on this hand. if UTG wasn't so shortstacked, i'd might fold this, but then again, i'm probably pushing, and pushing again next hand if given the chance.

[The once and future king]

Im not talking about the push Im talking about calling if you are the villain.

[HesseJam]

I am not that delicate.

At the low buyins I play and at these blind levels, being SB, coming first in, I am pushing any 2 any time no matter what kind of stack Im pushing into. Maybe one exception: I can survive one more complete round of blinds and at least two others will be forced to go all-in next round.

At the 15+1 you'll not get too many calls there...

[durron597]

Alright, here's my logic.

We are pushing into the biggest stack on the table. Thus, we are pushing into the opponent with the widest calling range with a terrible hand. This naturally makes me not like it.

On further analysis: this player was relatively tight for a big stack. We are 5 handed and not 4, so two people need to bust before us, and we have an M of 2.

Looking at the numbers, I think this is close. Maybe the fact that bluefeet was on pooh's immediate right makes this a push?

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, here's my logic.

We are pushing into the biggest stack on the table. Thus, we are pushing into the opponent with the widest calling range with a terrible hand. This naturally makes me not like it.

On further analysis: this player was relatively tight for a big stack. We are 5 handed and not 4, so two people need to bust before us, and we have an M of 2.

Looking at the numbers, I think this is close. Maybe the fact that bluefeet was on pooh's immediate right makes this a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd much rather push the big stack than someone who is in my situation at the table. If a stack with 3-4 BBs before post is getting the same odds as the bigstack in this hand if I were to push, then I would fold this hand maybe.

[durron597]

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I'd much rather push the big stack than someone who is in my situation at the table. If a stack with 3-4 BBs before post is getting the same odds as the bigstack in this hand if I were to push, then I would fold this hand maybe.

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I wouldn't want to push UTG here, but I would be happiest pushing into MP and second happiest pushing into bluefeet here.

[pooh74]

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I'd much rather push the big stack than someone who is in my situation at the table. If a stack with 3-4 BBs before post is getting the same odds as the bigstack in this hand if I were to push, then I would fold this hand maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't want to push UTG here, but I would be happiest pushing into MP and second happiest pushing into bluefeet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but, in general, I would rather push BS here than someone with something like, my own stack size...UTG, no way.

The key to hands like these is getting called by 88 and spiking the 9 on the flop...its really not that hard.