Quad raise?

[Diplomat]

20-40 game, little loose, but a few decent players in the game.

Bad player limps, two decent but definitely not good players limp, and I decide to raise from the CO with 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif . Both blinds call, as do the limpers. Coincidentally, the bad player is the same player from my post two days ago who checkraised me on the river with a straight when I held fives full. Apparently he'd been in the same seat since then. (that hand took place late Wednesday afternoon, this hand took place Friday mid-day) All I know about him is that he bought in for 3K two days ago and now has about 400 left, and plays about %75 of the hands delt to him.

Flop is Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . The small blind folds instead of checking (man I hate that), the big blind checks, the bad player bets. Both decent players call, I raise. The big blind folds, the bad player calls, both decent players call.

The turn is A /forums/images/icons/club.gif . The bad player comes out betting again, both decent players fold, I raise. Bad player calls.

River is 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif for a final board of Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif [A /forums/images/icons/club.gif ](5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif ). The bad player bets out again. Do I raise here? What if the bad player three-bets?

Results to follow.

-Diplomat

[sam h]

Raise the river and strongly consider a fourbet if he threebets.

He can't put you on a flush, which means he really doesn't need to have the the jack high flush. He really could have 24c or even a straight here, especially if he's been playing for two days.

[elysium]

hi diplomat
raise. he has JTo or aces up. you need only be concerned about three of the J suits here. you're well over 2-1 favorite and can easily raise. you want a call here though. if he 3-bets, you'll have to make a crying call.

[mike l.]

"The bad player bets out again. Do I raise here? What if the bad player three-bets?"

im surprised you asked this question. it's an obvious raise, especially given his river raise from two days before or else why even mention it. if he 3 bets you call. this is very simple stuff and it's not close at all. please post something a little more complicated so we can all learn something.

[Diplomat]

Hi Mike,

at the time it seemed wierd, given that he bet into me on every street despite that I raised him on every street. Anyway I raised and he three-bet. I think the real question here is whether or not to four-bet, given his condition.

Any thoughts there, or are you done thinking on this one already?

-Diplomat

[Dixie]

i would raise. if he has it, he has it but i would take my chances against this guy who is overtired, plays poorly and probably trying hard to get his money back. if he re-raises, you'll have to call.

[mike l.]

"whether or not to four-bet"

four betting seems close to out of the question. but if it caps the action then go ahead i guess, whatever suits you. if he'll come at your for five bets and youll feel certain you must call then it loses a lot of value.


having someone just bet into you relentlessly after you show strength is something ive recognized a lot of clueless players do. they dont understand the idea of a checkraise, or they just figure "i think my hand is best so i will now bet" or i dont know what, but ive seen it lots with the type of player i think youre describing.

"Any thoughts there, or are you done thinking on this one already?"

ive been trying to think less about my hold em play. it's not working. the results are disastrous.

[DiamondDave]

Against 99.9% of my opponents I'll cap the river in a multiway pot with the second nut flush. Against, oh, 99% of my opponents I'd stop raising heads-up with the second nut flush after the fourth or fifth bet gets put in.