Do I suck at 6 Max?

[David04]

Alright, I have been playing a little 6 Max lately, and I am getting my ass kicked. I am running at -4.83/100 for my 6 max experience(which is a small sample size, 1100 hands or so)I realize this is only a 50 BB downswing, but the fact that it started at the same time I began playing 6 max worries me.

I am a winning player at .50/1 full(running at 5.xx/100, over 20k hands)

Obviously, my sample size is way too small to know anything for sure, but what are the chances this is just variance?? Are there any ways to look at, stats to examine, things like that, to tell if I am playing badly?

I just feel like I am constantly losing huge pots where I am sure I have the best hand(flopped sets losing to flopped straights, flopped flushes losing to runner-runner full houses, KQ losing to a limped AK)

Sorry if this sounded like a bitching, low content post. I really don't know if I should play 6 Max some more, and see how it goes after a a larger sample size, or if I should just accept that I am not a a winning shorthanded player, and move back to fullring where I know I can win,

Any kind of advice/encouragement is appreciated.

[DCWildcat]

5BB/100 over 20k hands? I've never seen stats so good.

You're not going to get a good answer because the information you provided isn't enough to answer the question. Posting some hands would help.

[MrWookie47]

Oh, come on now, man. If you dropped 50 BB in full ring, would you be whining like this? Hopefully not. This is just another speed bump. If you think you suck, reply to some hands, especially the hard ones where you're unsure, and prepare to get smacked around when you get some answers wrong. You learn. You'll improve. And you may still not see any immediate results, you know? But you know what, you keep playing, you stop whining, and you keep on working on your game. Also, read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=2536762), if you haven't already.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but this is a tough love forum because poker is a tough world.

[cold_cash]

The shorthanded games are really swingy. In your next 1100 hands you might win 150 bets.

Do you suck? I don't know. You might. I doubt you suck so bad that you can't beat this game though..

Post some hands.

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
If you dropped 50 BB in full ring, would you be whining like this?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I feel like that is a different situation, because I am an overall winner for full ring, and I am almost positive that I am a winning player(I don't have enough hands to be 100% certain)

Also, I have read the "Six Max Baby Steps" thread, but thanks anyways.

[MrWookie47]

I figured you had read it. You've been around a while. However, I think you missed something. If you're a winning full ring player, you already have all the tools necessary to beat 6 max. You might not be playing totally optimally, but that's because you're probably not playing a totally optimal full ring game, either. You probably don't suck at 6 max. You can beat it, but you're far from perfect. Stick it out. Keep playing. Reply to some hands.

[Reqtech]

Maybe this is a good time for you to put in some more nudging on the mod board for a split LLSH board /images/graemlins/smile.gif We've got a very solid core of posters here in ML that would be pretty active there, I think.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a good time for you to put in some more nudging on the mod board for a split LLSH board /images/graemlins/smile.gif We've got a very solid core of posters here in ML that would be pretty active there, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't wait! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait!

[/ QUOTE ]

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
I am running at -4.83/100 for my 6 max experience(which is a small sample size, 1100 hands or so)...
I am a winning player at .50/1 full(running at 5.xx/100, over 20k hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

1100 with a -BB/100 or 20k hands with a +BB/100 does not a winning or losing player (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=mediumholdem&Number=3 452933&Searchpage=1&Main=3440370&Words=+GuyOnTilt& topic=&Search=true#Post3452933) make.

Be patient, study, solicit feedback, give consideration to these (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3383209&an=0&page=1# Post3383209) tips. The link is wrt downswings, but applicable to your post as well.

good luck,
--oj.

[TomBrooks]

> Alright, I have been playing a little 6 Max lately, and I am getting my ass kicked.
> my 1100 hand sample size is way too small to know anything for sure, but what are the chances this is just variance??

A good chance. But it could mean your not good at 6max also. Keep an eye on it. I was also crushing .5/1 full but I sucked at 6max for a long time. I kept playing it because I couldn't believe it was that hard and I didn't realize or accept that I sucked at it for a long time and I went down a lot.

> I am constantly losing huge pots where I am sure I have the best hand(flopped sets losing to flopped straights, flopped flushes losing to runner-runner full houses, KQ losing to a limped AK)

That could easily be all it is then.

>see how it goes after a a larger sample size?

Yes

> should just accept that I am not a a winning shorthanded player, and move back to fullring where I know I can win?

That's up to you. I won't give up on my SH game.

[McGahee]

Lately I've seen lots of posts inmplying that 6-max is a vastly different game. It's really not. Basically play your normal postflop game, and don't call down a lot with A-high. The biggest adjustment you need to make is PF IMO - raise a lot.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Lately I've seen lots of posts inmplying that 6-max is a vastly different game. It's really not. Basically play your normal postflop game, and don't call down a lot with A-high. The biggest adjustment you need to make is PF IMO - raise a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest problem I had with six max was treating it like a much different game. I have started treating it more like a regular game and I had my first up month in Oct since July. One significant thing I do differently is usually play by imagining the top card on the flop is a low card, with some exception for an ace. i.e. I'll often bet middle pair like it was top pair, and I assume a lot of opponents will bet out with middle pair just as often as betting out with top pair. (except the passive guys etc.)

your br should be able to handle a 200BB downswing easy.

try 15k hands at least and come back

i swing up and down 50BB all the time, its nothing

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a good time for you to put in some more nudging on the mod board for a split LLSH board /images/graemlins/smile.gif We've got a very solid core of posters here in ML that would be pretty active there, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't wait! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor can I. I've been nudging, but right now, it's more important for Mr. Weinstock to get the board working properly. There are a few outstanding bugs that he's working on:

1. The appearance of the board in threaded mode. Threads do not appear in chronological order (instead, a quasi-reverse chronological order), and the indentation is sometimes screwy.
2. Hitting the back button on your browser when making a post clears your post. It used to be that you could hit back, then forward, and the text of your post would still be there.
3. If you spend a long time making a post, something times out you won't be able to post it. This is compounded by the fact that if you hit the back button, the text is cleared. Essentially, the more time and effort you put into a post, the more likely you are to lose it all. I encourage you, if you make a long post, to copy the text to the clipboard before you post it.

After these get resolved, then we're looking to split HUSH.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
your br should be able to handle a 200BB downswing easy. try 15k hands at least and come back

[/ QUOTE ]
I was down 200 BB before I hit 5k. I bottomed at -458BB after 10.5k. (I think that was the bottom - I'm 100 up from there now with 13k.)