Using Netflix to obtain massive DVD collection... [Archive]

Paluka

11-01-2005, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i was just looking at netflix site and they have plan to take out 8 dvd's at a time. holy crap! if someone wanted to just copy the dvd's as soon as they recived them, they could probably copy 100+ DVD's/month.

why do people pay $15 for a DVD? Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you win a ton of money off some sucker, and then make a post that said you felt bad about taking his money? How can you claim to feel bad about that, but then find it strange that some people don't like stealing? Did you just want to look like you were really noble or something?

CollinEstes

11-01-2005, 01:12 PM

I use netflix and my wife wanted to do this but I think most people who want a big DVD collection want to have the actual case to display. I wouldn't know, there are plenty of movies to watch that I don't usually watch one more than twice.

(a few expections like Swingers of course).

evil_twin

11-01-2005, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why do people pay $15 for a DVD? Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i was just looking at netflix site and they have plan to take out 8 dvd's at a time. holy crap! if someone wanted to just copy the dvd's as soon as they recived them, they could probably copy 100+ DVD's/month.

why do people pay $15 for a DVD? Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you win a ton of money off some sucker, and then make a post that said you felt bad about taking his money? How can you claim to feel bad about that, but then find it strange that some people don't like stealing? Did you just want to look like you were really noble or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Paluka

11-01-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i was just looking at netflix site and they have plan to take out 8 dvd's at a time. holy crap! if someone wanted to just copy the dvd's as soon as they recived them, they could probably copy 100+ DVD's/month.

why do people pay $15 for a DVD? Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you win a ton of money off some sucker, and then make a post that said you felt bad about taking his money? How can you claim to feel bad about that, but then find it strange that some people don't like stealing? Did you just want to look like you were really noble or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You follow what I'm saying right? In one post you claimed remorse about fairly winning someone's money at poker. In another, you advocate stealing.

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I use netflix and my wife wanted to do this but I think most people who want a big DVD collection want to have the actual case to display. I wouldn't know, there are plenty of movies to watch that I don't usually watch one more than twice.

(a few expections like Swingers of course).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I agree with this.

I was just curious if anyone here had some crazy DVD collection like 1000+ DVD's.

razor

11-01-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, and

[ QUOTE ]
The cases are purdy.

[/ QUOTE ]

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i was just looking at netflix site and they have plan to take out 8 dvd's at a time. holy crap! if someone wanted to just copy the dvd's as soon as they recived them, they could probably copy 100+ DVD's/month.

why do people pay $15 for a DVD? Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you win a ton of money off some sucker, and then make a post that said you felt bad about taking his money? How can you claim to feel bad about that, but then find it strange that some people don't like stealing? Did you just want to look like you were really noble or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You follow what I'm saying right? In one post you claimed remorse about fairly winning someone's money at poker. In another, you advocate stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I am HUGE hypocrite.

Voltron87

11-01-2005, 01:20 PM

someone possibly losing his life savings in one night playing internet poker is not quite the same thing as stealing a dvd.

kane your avatar is great, wtf is it?

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
someone possibly losing his life savings in one night playing internet poker is not quite the same thing as stealing a dvd.

kane your avatar is great, wtf is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

shin chan, japanesse cartoon character.

asofel

11-01-2005, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
terabytes. 1000 gigabytes.

[/ QUOTE ]

or 1024 Gigabets...

*crickets chirping*

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it about principle of not stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, and

[ QUOTE ]
The cases are purdy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. when i sold my small dvd collection on ebay the guy wanted to know if i had the dvd paper inserts to the boxes!

Voltron87

11-01-2005, 01:34 PM

1. does netflix really work in vietnam or wherever?

2. i have a dvd i want to copy to my comp, how do i do this? I want to copy the commentaries and stuff as well. its a 2 disc special of heat which i legitimately rented and dont have time to watch in two days.

jaydub

11-01-2005, 01:35 PM

use dvd shrink. you can pick which items you want to keep.

B Dids

11-01-2005, 01:36 PM

This is a half baked idea, but bear with me.

At some point the value and cost of something like a DVD becomes so out of wack that it's hard for me not to rationalize what amounts to theft.

There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

This is ethically inconsistant, and probably full of it, but it's the current thought that is in my brain.

Paluka

11-01-2005, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a half baked idea, but bear with me.

At some point the value and cost of something like a DVD becomes so out of wack that it's hard for me not to rationalize what amounts to theft.

There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

This is ethically inconsistant, and probably full of it, but it's the current thought that is in my brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure a lot of people do something similar to this, but they also don't create huge threads on poker forums about how much money tehy took off some sucker, and then right at the end of it say "yeah, I feel bad though guys." He feels so bad he is not even willing to spend the "ill-gotten" money paying for dvds.

jaydub

11-01-2005, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a half baked idea, but bear with me.

At some point the value and cost of something like a DVD becomes so out of wack that it's hard for me not to rationalize what amounts to theft.

There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

This is ethically inconsistant, and probably full of it, but it's the current thought that is in my brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure a lot of people do something similar to this, but they also don't create huge threads on poker forums about how much money tehy took off some sucker, and then right at the end of it say "yeah, I feel bad though guys." He feels so bad he is not even willing to spend the "ill-gotten" money paying for dvds.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a huge difference when taking money from an individual vs a faceless, billion dollar company.

The thread KKF created about his feelings was a valuable contribution but it should not be discussed here.

B Dids

11-01-2005, 01:49 PM

He's like 18 or something, he's allowed some ethical inconsistancies.

I'm not sure it's totally analagous, because 100K is a life changing amount, and the big issue with DVDs and CDs is that the profit margin on them is so high that we know damn well that the loss is NOT life changing for the studios/labels. (as an aside, if the issue that people like the MPAA and RIAA argued was intellectual property rather than poverty, it would hold a lot more validity).

(also, the thread he started was in response to a long thread about his HU battle that he didn't start, so it wasn't as if he was bragging that he won 100K, as it was well know on the forums)

Paluka

11-01-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's like 18 or something, he's allowed some ethical inconsistancies.

I'm not sure it's totally analagous, because 100K is a life changing amount, and the big issue with DVDs and CDs is that the profit margin on them is so high that we know damn well that the loss is NOT life changing for the studios/labels. (as an aside, if the issue that people like the MPAA and RIAA argued was intellectual property rather than poverty, it would hold a lot more validity).

(also, the thread he started was in response to a long thread about his HU battle that he didn't start, so it wasn't as if he was bragging that he won 100K, as it was well know on the forums)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the amount of money involved in software/music/movie piracy is a "life-changing" amount. I find it hard to believe that there aren't everyday folks who work in those industries who aren't worse off because of it.
Of course he is allowed inconsistencies. I download illegal stuff too, but if I really like it I usually end up buying it to be a good guy. And of course I'm vegetarian, but I should be vegan. We all suck.

pryor15

11-01-2005, 02:42 PM

i still buy some dvd's, but mostly i do this.

it's very helpful when getting tv shows like Lost that several people want to watch, since it would put a big delay in the netflix queue.

jnalpak

11-01-2005, 02:56 PM

Here is a good catalyst for this convo...
Do you know how much is costs movie houses to stamp and box a DVD (SINGLE DISC)?

around 1 CENT when mass produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

astroglide

11-01-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a good catalyst for this convo...
Do you know how much is costs movie houses to stamp and box a DVD (SINGLE DISC)?

around 1 CENT when mass produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

1: this figure cannot possibly include the packaging
2: you're idiotically ignoring the marketing and distribution costs, the costs of the movie itself, etc

bobman0330

11-01-2005, 03:15 PM

citanul

11-01-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a good catalyst for this convo...
Do you know how much is costs movie houses to stamp and box a DVD (SINGLE DISC)?

around 1 CENT when mass produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

1: this figure cannot possibly include the packaging
2: you're idiotically ignoring the marketing and distribution costs, the costs of the movie itself, etc

[/ QUOTE ]

what i like most about your very intelligent reply was that you didn't even concern yourself with

[ QUOTE ]
By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

not even with a "yeah, because that's an ok thing to do."

c

nothumb

11-01-2005, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
use dvd shrink. you can pick which items you want to keep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get this, and does it rip copy-protected DVDs?

NT

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

CollinEstes

11-01-2005, 03:50 PM

SL__72

11-01-2005, 03:53 PM

Too bad there isn't a cheaper movie place.

Matt Flynn

11-01-2005, 04:00 PM

In high bulk it would cost me approx $1 each, with printed slip covers instead of boxes. Who does this for the movie houses and what is the minimum order they will take?

jaydub

11-01-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You strike me as a pretty smart guy so surely you can recognize how intellectual property differs from physical goods such as a steak and thus how all of these analogies fall short.

In the IP cases, the "loss" is only the loss of a potential sale. In the analogies, something was truly lost, the restaurant is out a couple steaks and a bottle of wine, walmart cannot sell the dvds you have taken. Things get screwy when estimating losses based on potential, eg would the kid with 1000 dvds really spend $15K if he couldn't just rip them? Did he steal $15K from the MPAA?

astroglide

11-01-2005, 04:06 PM

how can no dvd be worth $20 to you? i couldn't see that as being possible even for the most intense of movie haters. do you ever pay for movie tickets in a theater? that's like $8 pre-food for a one-time viewing.

IndieMatty

11-01-2005, 04:09 PM

IndieMatty

11-01-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how can no dvd be worth $20 to you? i couldn't see that as being possible even for the most intense of movie haters. do you ever pay for movie tickets in a theater? that's like $8 pre-food for a one-time viewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. DVDs are so cheap now, I'll often buy a movie I think I may like because it's like a pack of ciggarettes more then renting it.

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad there isn't a cheaper movie place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? You can watch movies at a movie theater, on pay cable, on regular cable, on free TV, by buying a DVD, by renting a DVD, by checking a DVD out from a library, etc.

Each of these ways have different benefits and costs.

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 04:22 PM

swede123

11-01-2005, 04:23 PM

Try the new Wendy's Jr. Smoky Cheddarburger. Only $1.19 for a limited time!

Swede

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You strike me as a pretty smart guy so surely you can recognize how intellectual property differs from physical goods such as a steak and thus how all of these analogies fall short.

In the IP cases, the "loss" is only the loss of a potential sale. In the analogies, something was truly lost, the restaurant is out a couple steaks and a bottle of wine, walmart cannot sell the dvds you have taken. Things get screwy when estimating losses based on potential, eg would the kid with 1000 dvds really spend $15K if he couldn't just rip them? Did he steal $15K from the MPAA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in the software business. My companies have spent millions of dollars developing IP. If you want to use that IP, I like you to pay for it.

I find this pretty simple. Stuff has a price. If it is worth that price to you, you pay it. If it isn't, you don't.

As for the kid, no he might not spend $15k. He might, however, have $100 budgeted to buy 8 CDs that he'll spend on CDs if he can't steal them. Many of us want more stuff than we can afford. Some people get around that by stealing, others don't.

IndieMatty

11-01-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful comparison, but you for one know that this meal is indeed worth $250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true. I should have used a better analogy. Wolfgang's is actually Thursday night.

Where should I go to dinner Wednesday night?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent question; I got a very fairly priced/new place for you; but it's a china grill restaurant, so it will always at least meet a certain level of quality. If you are in the mood for Japanese, Ono at the Gansevoort is on that site if you want to step it up a notch.

English Is Italian (http://www.chinagrillmanagement.com/englishIsItalian/index.htm)

B Dids

11-01-2005, 04:44 PM

I did include several caveats and use the word "half baked".

I don't often go to movies in theaters, so I'm not well equipped to answer that. Given that I can see most movies on On Demand or Cable, the benefit of owning the DVD is easy of replaying and added features. I suppose those could likely be worth 20 bucks, but I would guess that if I did an analysis of the DVDs I owned, and could measure this in some way, it would not be true for most of them.

WRT- Diablo's point, obviously this is a crime of opportunity, now I'm pretty sure if Wolfgangs had some variable pricing plan, where 250 was suggested, but not require, most people would pay what, 50 max? In terms of relative value, is dinner at Wolfgangs worth 200 more than dinner at a 50 buck a plate restaurant? I would think at some point, if the diners set the price point, it wouldn't be at 250.

I'm mostly blathering, but I feel like somebody who knows something about economics might be able to explain what I think I might be talking about here.

flatline

11-01-2005, 04:52 PM

I don't care if people burn dvd's; i've burned several. I download movies all the time. That said I still buy a lot of DVDs because having a huge DVD collection on display makes me feel cool.

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful comparison, but you for one know that this meal is indeed worth $250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true. I should have used a better analogy. Wolfgang's is actually Thursday night.

Where should I go to dinner Wednesday night?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent question; I got a very fairly priced/new place for you; but it's a china grill restaurant, so it will always at least meet a certain level of quality. If you are in the mood for Japanese, Ono at the Gansevoort is on that site if you want to step it up a notch.

English Is Italian (http://www.chinagrillmanagement.com/englishIsItalian/index.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, I thought that place sounded great, but then I read the NYT review:

The peculiar name of the restaurant English is Italian is explained by the chef's family tree. Todd English, best known for his Mediterranean cooking at Olives, has Italian roots on his mother's side. But this restaurant feels less like an expression of ethnic pride than a perfunctory bit of brand extension. In a mammoth, ultra-modern, attractive space, diners are served family-style meals: platter upon platter of antipasti, pasta dishes and main courses. It's a lot food and not a lot of money, but most of that food is ordinary or worse, and the service can be slapdash. -- Frank Bruni
-The New York Times

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how can no dvd be worth $20 to you? i couldn't see that as being possible even for the most intense of movie haters. do you ever pay for movie tickets in a theater? that's like $8 pre-food for a one-time viewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy Crap! In Thailand its $2-$3 for the same exact thing.

Just curious what is the difference between recording a TV show and recording a DVD movie you rent?

KaneKungFu123

11-01-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful comparison, but you for one know that this meal is indeed worth $250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true. I should have used a better analogy. Wolfgang's is actually Thursday night.

Where should I go to dinner Wednesday night?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent question; I got a very fairly priced/new place for you; but it's a china grill restaurant, so it will always at least meet a certain level of quality. If you are in the mood for Japanese, Ono at the Gansevoort is on that site if you want to step it up a notch.

English Is Italian (http://www.chinagrillmanagement.com/englishIsItalian/index.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, I thought that place sounded great, but then I read the NYT review:

The peculiar name of the restaurant English is Italian is explained by the chef's family tree. Todd English, best known for his Mediterranean cooking at Olives, has Italian roots on his mother's side. But this restaurant feels less like an expression of ethnic pride than a perfunctory bit of brand extension. In a mammoth, ultra-modern, attractive space, diners are served family-style meals: platter upon platter of antipasti, pasta dishes and main courses. It's a lot food and not a lot of money, but most of that food is ordinary or worse, and the service can be slapdash. -- Frank Bruni
-The New York Times

[/ QUOTE ]

do you normally find those type of critics informative?

Ulysses

11-01-2005, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful comparison, but you for one know that this meal is indeed worth $250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true. I should have used a better analogy. Wolfgang's is actually Thursday night.

Where should I go to dinner Wednesday night?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent question; I got a very fairly priced/new place for you; but it's a china grill restaurant, so it will always at least meet a certain level of quality. If you are in the mood for Japanese, Ono at the Gansevoort is on that site if you want to step it up a notch.

English Is Italian (http://www.chinagrillmanagement.com/englishIsItalian/index.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, I thought that place sounded great, but then I read the NYT review:

The peculiar name of the restaurant English is Italian is explained by the chef's family tree. Todd English, best known for his Mediterranean cooking at Olives, has Italian roots on his mother's side. But this restaurant feels less like an expression of ethnic pride than a perfunctory bit of brand extension. In a mammoth, ultra-modern, attractive space, diners are served family-style meals: platter upon platter of antipasti, pasta dishes and main courses. It's a lot food and not a lot of money, but most of that food is ordinary or worse, and the service can be slapdash. -- Frank Bruni
-The New York Times

[/ QUOTE ]

do you normally find those type of critics informative?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I often find food reviews very informative.

IndieMatty

11-01-2005, 05:07 PM

When was the review written?

Also, I tend to discredit any critic who bitches about service.

coltrane

11-01-2005, 05:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm in the software business. My companies have spent millions of dollars developing IP. If you want to use that IP, I like you to pay for it.

I find this pretty simple. Stuff has a price. If it is worth that price to you, you pay it. If it isn't, you don't.

As for the kid, no he might not spend $15k. He might, however, have $100 budgeted to buy 8 CDs that he'll spend on CDs if he can't steal them. Many of us want more stuff than we can afford. Some people get around that by stealing, others don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

piracy and stealing are not always the same thing (ethically speaking) - particularly when dealing with fields in the arts.....motive must be taken into account....i.e. - if a young aspiring musician/filmmaker kid pirates music/film for "educational use", I don't think it's the same thing as some dude bootlegging DVD's to sell in Chinatown....not sure whether the judicial system would agree, but I'm not sure they wouldn't - most intellectual property/copyright laws include certain stipulations/exceptions for various circumstances like "educational use" and others.....not saying that OP would fall into one of these exceptions though....

astroglide

11-01-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Holy Crap! In Thailand its $2-$3 for the same exact thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you can drop the thailand economics [censored] any time now, dude. it's not as if you are so far removed from the usa/europe life that you don't know about or are amazed by the prices of everyday things.

Blarg

11-01-2005, 08:33 PM

I had the 8 DVD plan, and you're wrong about how many you could copy in a month or see in a month. They cut the rate at which they ship you DVD's drastically if you're an active customer. And some DVD's they just put you on the back burner to get essentially forever. Yes, it's not fair and yes it is preferential, and yes, there's not anything you can do about it. I've had Ninja Scroll at the top of my queue for about 8 months.

I finally quit the 8 at a time DVD plan because it was essentially extra money for nothing. Once they flag your account for high use, you don't really get the same service but more of it; you get a different service entirely. And it's a slow one. Turn-around takes days.

When I was on the 3 at a time plan, I used to get them like lightning. And when I shipped them back, I got their e-mail notification the next day, often, and that very day, the new DVD would go out. Now it takes days for them to acknowledge receipt of a disk, and even when they've done that, it can take them two days, occasionally more, just to stick the damn DVD's in the mail back to me.

To me, that's absurd, especially since my getting the 8 at once plan was predicated on their previous good service, which vanished. So, finally I decided my high level of subscription should vanish too, and I'm back on the 3 at a time option. Hopefully they'll flag my account eventually to get more speed going on it. But if not, I really wasn't getting 2.5 times more per month DVD's anyway. I don't think I'll see all that much of a decline in the movies I get per month. Basically, for an active customer, the 8 at a a time deal is not a good deal at all.

david050173

11-01-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a good catalyst for this convo...
Do you know how much is costs movie houses to stamp and box a DVD (SINGLE DISC)?

around 1 CENT when mass produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

1: this figure cannot possibly include the packaging
2: you're idiotically ignoring the marketing and distribution costs, the costs of the movie itself, etc

[/ QUOTE ]

what i like most about your very intelligent reply was that you didn't even concern yourself with

[ QUOTE ]
By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

not even with a "yeah, because that's an ok thing to do."

c

[/ QUOTE ]

Do a search for companies that press dvds and provide cases. the cost is ~1 buck. See http://www.imcoptical.com/dvd_replication.html . Being off by two orders of magnitude is pretty huge. And as pointed out there can be huge development costs which haven't yet been recouped (remember to look at the flops as well as the megahits).

You are also stealing from hollywood. Netflix loses money because they have to send you more DVDs. Hollywood loses money since netflix has to buy less dvds to satisfy customer demand and you are buying less (ie you obviously want these dvds otherwise you wouldn't put in the effort to copy them).

Blarg

11-01-2005, 09:27 PM

Just curious -- I'm guessing that when you order a million DVD's pressed, you get a substantial discount. Especially as a repeat customer. I wouldn't be surprised if companies bought out the people doing this for them anyway, to keep the cost down.

Also the dude was talking about the cost to make a disk, not the price both a box and DVD are sold to someone for. Pretty big difference.

Voltron87

11-01-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's basically no way I'm going to feel like I got 20 bucks worth of enjoyment out of a DVD. I don't know how I measure that, but I just can't see it happening. As such, I feel like what you see with file sharing and what not is some sort of market correction or someting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking a friend to Wolfgang's on Wednesday night. Our tab will be about $250 for the two of us. I like their food a lot but it's too expensive. Instead of going to a cheaper steak place, I will go to Wolfgang's and make a market correction, leaving $150 and taking off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful comparison, but you for one know that this meal is indeed worth $250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true. I should have used a better analogy. Wolfgang's is actually Thursday night.

Where should I go to dinner Wednesday night?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lucy. It is a spanish/mexican place. 35 East 18th street. i had dinner there last week, it was excellent. dinner for 3 would be 175 or so. we did not get wine though. good service and we all really enjoyed our meals, i really recommend it.

Yeti

11-01-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Just curious what is the difference between recording a TV show and recording a DVD movie you rent?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't see the difference between these, then, wow.

tomdemaine

11-01-2005, 09:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a good catalyst for this convo...
Do you know how much is costs movie houses to stamp and box a DVD (SINGLE DISC)?

around 1 CENT when mass produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time netflix comes around Hollywood has already collected a paycheck. You are now only stealing from netflix.

[/ QUOTE ]

The second DVD may cost one cent but the first one costs $150 million

KaneKungFu123

11-02-2005, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Just curious what is the difference between recording a TV show and recording a DVD movie you rent?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't see the difference between these, then, wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I dont see a clear difference between cable and netflix. You are renting both. Netlfix is just a slightly different form of cable IMO.

astroglide

11-02-2005, 12:43 AM

places like blockbuster and netflix don't pay consumer prices for new releases either. they have revenue sharing agreements with the studios, which replaced the former deal of high fixed prices ($100 for a vhs tape kind of prices). before revenue sharing you would get charged a billion dollars for losing/damaging a rental to cover their costs, and supply was more scarce because it was a bigger investment. so stealing from a rental house isn't just stealing from the rental house, and even if it wasn't it would still be stealing.

cable happens much later, after the peak rental and sale stages. this is obviously a big difference.

KaneKungFu123

11-02-2005, 12:44 AM

they dont have netflix in vietnam. i can buy originial VCDs, less quality for about $4, but limited selection, mostly new movies. the bootleg quality is very poor in my experience and not worth it.

KaneKungFu123

11-02-2005, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Holy Crap! In Thailand its $2-$3 for the same exact thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you can drop the thailand economics [censored] any time now, dude. it's not as if you are so far removed from the usa/europe life that you don't know about or are amazed by the prices of everyday things.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just write things like that as encouragement for other people to travel to other countries. Youd be surprised how many people are like "They have movie cinemas in third world countries /images/graemlins/confused.gif !!"

KaneKungFu123

11-02-2005, 12:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]

cable happens much later, after the peak rental and sale stages. this is obviously a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

A different form of stealing?

You record a movie on cable. How is this not stealing intellectual property? If you want that movie you can go out and buy it on DVD.

I am not trying to defend stealing from netflix, i just dont see the difference.

david050173

11-02-2005, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

cable happens much later, after the peak rental and sale stages. this is obviously a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

A different form of stealing?

You record a movie on cable. How is this not stealing intellectual property? If you want that movie you can go out and buy it on DVD.

I am not trying to defend stealing from netflix, i just dont see the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Recording cable is covered by fair use. Backing up DVDs may also be covered by fair use ( I am not aware of any court cases about it. It is sort of complex considering to back up a DVD you have to to a DCMA violation). Copying a DVD and allowing some else to use the original at the same time is a violation of copyright laws. Netflix is not a considered a broadcast medium so different rules apply

astroglide

11-02-2005, 01:50 AM

ok, look at it this way. i have cable and all of the premium channels - hbo, cinemax, etc. not only does my cable company provide me with a dvr and encourage its use, but all of the premium channels have video on demand. if hbo has shown 'the exorcist' or whatever any time in recent history, i can go to the video on demand area and request the movie. it will play instantly. because of this i don't have to bother with recording any movies because they're all instantly available to me.

when you 'steal' by copying cable you're taking content that is already at the end of its independent financial life. it's not a big rental or sale property, and it's now being used to leverage a subscriber base for premium channels. they either pay for the rights or get them free because a movie company has a hand in their business. once something is airing on cable they're saying, "enjoy this however you want as often as you want as long as you've paid for the channel." i genuinely don't believe that they care if you copy it.

KaneKungFu123

11-02-2005, 02:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ok, look at it this way. i have cable and all of the premium channels - hbo, cinemax, etc. not only does my cable company provide me with a dvr and encourage its use, but all of the premium channels have video on demand. if hbo has shown 'the exorcist' or whatever any time in recent history, i can go to the video on demand area and request the movie. it will play instantly. because of this i don't have to bother with recording any movies because they're all instantly available to me.

when you 'steal' by copying cable you're taking content that is already at the end of its independent financial life. it's not a big rental or sale property, and it's now being used to leverage a subscriber base for premium channels. they either pay for the rights or get them free because a movie company has a hand in their business. once something is airing on cable they're saying, "enjoy this however you want as often as you want as long as you've paid for the channel." i genuinely don't believe that they care if you copy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, that makes sense. Ive never had cable before in my life. I didnt realize the movies they showed were that old.

astroglide

11-02-2005, 02:07 AM

they're not showing ancient movies, but you're still talking well after dvd release when it's no longer a hot purchase/rental.

Blarg

11-02-2005, 02:08 AM

To the extent that they care enough to make distinctions at all instead of just mouthing a position, I think what they really care about is not some guy renting a movie and making a copy of it, since the chances are probably extremely low he would buy more than a tiny fraction of the things he might copy anyway. What they worry about by far the most is the guys who hit their pocketbook hard, the copiers who go out and sell the copies they make, often at full price or near it. These guys can take serious money out of the mitts of producers.

Not that the movie and audio industries haven't always been screaming bloody murder, lobbying and litigating their asses off from the time cassette tapes came out through every technology to today. There will always be hysteria and overkill from those industries, but whatever laws they manage to get passed, there's clearly a difference between some guy who copies a DVD he has already rented and has no intention of buying and the type of copying that actually costs anyone money.

Myself, I've copied DVD's sometimes because they get shipped to me in my queue automatically and don't always come when I'm in the mood for them or not too tired to see them, but that doesn't mean I won't want to see them in a day or two. In the meantime, I could be getting DVD's I actually DO feel like seeing. Nobody knows what mood they'll be in in advance. So back they go, and I get around to watching the copy when I feel like it. With most movies, once is plenty, heck, too much sometimes. Most of the movies I wanted to see multiple times, I bought new.

david050173

11-02-2005, 02:23 AM

This is really just an excuse. If you don't like the limitations of the model (ie you get dvds sort of randomly) you should be renting locally (there is a reason why local rentals cost more than netflix). Or waiting until you want to see the movie.

Blarg

11-02-2005, 02:28 AM

That's silly. I try to manipulate my queue second by second and hope my choices still fit me when the DVD's arrive days later? Ridiculous. I should give up the convenience of a mail service when I don't have to? Why in the hell would I want to do that?

jaydub

11-02-2005, 02:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(there is a reason why local rentals cost more than netflix)

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but the costs of maintaining a brick and mortar presence are not relevant here. or were you referring to some other cost?

david050173

11-02-2005, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's silly. I try to manipulate my queue second by second and hope my choices still fit me when the DVD's arrive days later? Ridiculous. I should give up the convenience of a mail service when I don't have to? Why in the hell would I want to do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to give up the convience of a mail service because you don't want to live by the limitations that are imposed by that service (ie you have x dvds out and they arrive at semirandom times). It doesn't matter what you want. That is irrevalant. By "cheating" you are adding cost to the system which have to be paid by other people.

david050173

11-02-2005, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(there is a reason why local rentals cost more than netflix)

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but the costs of maintaining a brick and mortar presence are not relevant here. or were you referring to some other cost?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to cost to the user. The cost of providing a service is irrevelant to the cost of the good. People decide what they want to pay and if the cost of the good is more than what they want to pay, they go without. There are services that provide you the ability to watch the movies you want when you want (local rental stores, video on demand, buying the dvd,...). If that is what you want, that is what you be using. If it cost more, it is because the cost of offering that service is considered more valuable.

jaydub

11-02-2005, 04:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(there is a reason why local rentals cost more than netflix)

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but the costs of maintaining a brick and mortar presence are not relevant here. or were you referring to some other cost?

[/ QUOTE ]

The cost of providing a service is irrevelant to the cost of the good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't decide if that is nonsensical or flat wrong. But regardless I do no think you understand the dvd by mail market

david050173

11-02-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(there is a reason why local rentals cost more than netflix)

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but the costs of maintaining a brick and mortar presence are not relevant here. or were you referring to some other cost?

[/ QUOTE ]

The cost of providing a service is irrevelant to the cost of the good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't decide if that is nonsensical or flat wrong. But regardless I do no think you understand the dvd by mail market

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand economics so I think we are even/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tell me why it you think it is wrong? As a consumer, do you care what the cost of doing business for a store is? I sure as heck don't. I care what about I have to pay. If that amount is less than your cost of doing business, you don't have a viable business.