Complaints About New Forum Version

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I've made a few "fixes" in the last 24 hours. Some of them may take care of your own pet peeves. I need to know what problems still exist. To make it easy for me to track them down, I need specific examples of the problems.

What I'd like to ask is that you verify that the problems you've had still exist, and if so put a reply under this post that describes the problem in as much detail as possible, and without extraneous noise. Before you do so, though, please make sure that someone hasn't reported the same problem. Use meaningful subjects to make this easy. If you want to provide support for an already reported problem do so as a reply to the original post...not as a new post.

I have limited time to work on this at the moment and need to spend my time where it will do the most good.

Thanks,

Chuck

[DcifrThs]

the back button on our browser deletes all work written into this "post" box.

i typed a long response w/ math and analysis and got an error message that said "this form is no longer valid, please use your browsers back button"

i used the back button and got all my work erased.

Barron

[BottlesOf]

I can't tell who is responding to whom when first viewing the forum. Here is an example. I open HUSH and see that josh1122 responded to a post of mine:


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9594/1111115op.jpg


Ok cool. So let's say I click on his post to see what he's saying to me. I am taken to this screen:


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1928/22222221ao.jpg


where I see that he wasn't, in fact, responding to my post, but rather we are both responding to the original post in the thread.


There are lots of little problems like this. I will point them out and explain them as I see them, but it will take some time, and I won't be able to do them all today.

[BruceZ]

When you open a link from a list returned by a search, and if you then hit the back button to return to the list, you get a white page saying that the page is expired and to hit refresh. If you then hit refresh, you get a button that says "retry", and if you click that, you finally get the search list back, often after waiting a considerable time for the search to be performed again. The only way to avoid this is to open every link in a new window by right clicking, which is a major pain.

[AngryCola]

Hi, Chuck. Your work is appreciated. Can you tell us what you already fixed?

[jdl22]

deleted, answered by cola who still seems a little bit angry.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
deleted, answered by cola who still seems a little bit angry.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's tried pretty hard to help people with all the issues they've been having this week.

[Lloyd]

The PM limitation is still an issue. I've had a couple people tell me that they cannot access their mailbox to even delete. If that's true for others perhaps we can lift the limit for a short period of time and tell people they have x number of days to clean up their box at which point the limit is restored.

Or . . . just get rid of the limit.

[Surfbullet]

*cough* Split HUSH! *cough*


Seriously though, if it's alot of work i'll be patient until you get all the bugs fixed. /images/graemlins/smile.gif sorry for the incessant nagging.

Surf

[Greg J]

I would love to see this fixed too. This is driving me insane.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

Find a shortish thread (say 3/4 replies and 2/3 levels of nesting) and agree among yourselves what the appropriate order of display should be and I'll see what I can do. I don't want to hear individual suggestions, I want to hear a consensus.

Chuck

[BottlesOf]

I don't understand how there is any doubt? A person should be indented one notch to the right from the person they're responding to, and immediately below that person. Multiple people responding to the same person should stack on top of each other, probably most recent on top. How else would it be done?

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how there is any doubt? A person should be indented one notch to the right from the person they're responding to, and immediately below that person. Multiple people responding to the same person should stack on top of each other, probably most recent on top. How else would it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes anything else would be weird.

Basically it should be in the same order it was before the upgrade.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
A person should be indented one notch to the right from the person they're responding to, and immediately below that person. Multiple people responding to the same person should stack on top of each other, probably most recent on top.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. The only debatable part is the "most recent on top". I perfer it the other way because the natural way to read through them is from top to bottom and it makes sense to read the older replies before the newer ones.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A person should be indented one notch to the right from the person they're responding to, and immediately below that person. Multiple people responding to the same person should stack on top of each other, probably most recent on top.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. The only debatable part is the "most recent on top". I perfer it the other way because the natural way to read through them is from top to bottom and it makes sense to read the older replies before the newer ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I didn't want to make any more posts for the next couple of days, I have to voice my agreement with bobby and the rest. I had previously said that I didn't mind the most recent being on top, but it's just too much of a difference/headache for the majority of forum users.

Just make it how it was before the upgrade.

[Greg J]

When me, [censored] and Cola all agree on something, I don't see there being any more of a censensus possible! /images/graemlins/smile.gif I totally agree here.

[BruceZ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how there is any doubt? A person should be indented one notch to the right from the person they're responding to, and immediately below that person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course.


[ QUOTE ]
Multiple people responding to the same person should stack on top of each other,

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course.


[ QUOTE ]
probably most recent on top. How else would it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

With most recent on bottom, which was the way it was once upon a time. I'd be willing to live with this either way, but one problem that needs to be fixed is that when you click on a post in threaded mode, it should bring up the post that you clicked on, not the first unread post.

I noticed that one long standing problem seems to have been fixed with this upgrade, and that is that when you bring up a post in threaded mode, the order of the displayed posts no longer changes. In other words, the order of the posts once you are reading a post is the same as it was in the index. Please do not break this again.

In other words, make it exactly the way it was before the upgrade (except for retaining the above mentioned improvement) and it looks like we have a consensus.

[BottlesOf]

Yea I just want it the way before the upgrade. That goes for a lot of things.

[Lloyd]

It looks as if copying a pasting a thread from an external source (like a .txt file) results in a loss of URL formatting. This is actually quite important for MTT as I do a lot of writing off line and then paste "2+2 compliant" code into a post.

Here (http://www.geocities.com/kneecogalanis/Fa1q.txt) is an example. If you try to cut and paste this into a post the URLs no longer work even though they are in the correct format.

[Lloyd]

So when I cut and paste what's in that file, this is what we get:

Welcome to the 2+2 Multi-table tournaments board FAQ.
The FAQ contains a guide to posting hands, some information about how the forum operates and very brief descriptions of some poker concepts with come up frequently, these descriptions are very far from exhaustive and are only intended to orient members who are unfamiliar with the ideas. Finally, there is a brief list of some common MTT acronyms/abbreviations.

Guidelines for Posting Hands:
1) Use the converter
It can be found here. (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter/hhconverter.cgi) (note that by default it is set to FTR Format, and should be changed to 2+2)
Raw Hand Histories are difficult to read and cumbersome, using the converter will be doing everyone a favor and making your post more likely to get replies. Note that you should try and use the converter even when posting hands in "Official" tournament threads.
2) Have an informative title:
A quick summary of the hand in the title is helpful. 'Calling all-in with 99' is a lot better as a title than 'Should I have folded this instead?'
3) Introduce the hand clearly:
Basically, what you should do, in one sentence at the top of your post, is answer the following question: Why am I posting this? This will give us a good idea of where you’re coming from and make the discussion more productive.
i.e.: 'By not controlling pot size early in the hand, I think I paint myself in a corner by the river' or 'I really think this was a solid execution of the squeeze play'.
4) Include pertinent information:
Buy-in, stage of the tournament, reads on the villains, your image at the table. This stuff is generally very brief, but crucial (consider the problems in HoH an indicator of how to do this). Also, thinking of reads and such when you post hands is good practice to make sure you’re thinking about it at the table. Notice how the great players always seem to have reads to include, this isn't a coincidence.
5) Do not post results:
Consciously or not, it’s impossible not to be impacted by the results of hand. Accordingly, not posting them is necessary to getting the best possible discussion. Not only should you not post results, you should stop all the action at the point in the hand that you want to discuss.
For instance, the following is flawed:
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP1 (t2450)
Hero (t710)
MP3 (t545)
CO (t4923)
Button (t2580)
SB (t1726)
BB (t1809)
UTG (t1168)
UTG+1 (t835)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t835</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t710 (All-In), <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG calls t435.

Flop: (t2530) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2530) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2530) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2530


[/ QUOTE ]
While it may not contain the end result of the hand, there is still information there that may poison the well, the hand should be posted as follows:
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP1 (t2450)
Hero (t710)
MP3 (t545)
CO (t4923)
Button (t2580)
SB (t1726)
BB (t1809)
UTG (t1168)
UTG+1 (t835)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t835</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t710 (All-In)


[/ QUOTE ]
Who are the best players/posters in the forum?
Difficult to say, we have been lucky to attract some great poker minds in the community who are unafraid to share their knowledge even years after "breaking through". Of the many players who belong to the stable of content rich posters, some names comes immediately to mind: Sirio11, MLG, Jason Strasser, Sossman, Che, 2005, Fnurt, Woodguy, Schwza, Adanthar and Exitonly, to name a few, are hallmarks of the MTT forum. That being said, everyone is free to state their opinion, and no one should be reluctant to intelligently question or second guess any arguments, regardless of the reputation of the author.

What are the best posts in the forum?
A very fine selection has been compiled here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3436856&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1).

No one is replying to my thread, may I bump it?
This actually happens very rarely, 2+2 is a very active forum, and most threads get some responses, so give it some time. If it does happen however that after a day no replies have been made, rather than a bump, if you feel that a good opportunity for discussion has been missed, you should probably reply to your own thread with more of your own thoughts on the hand/question/observation/theory or a reformulation of your post, as this is simply more productive. If you still don’t get any responses after this, it’s probably best to just let it go because, for whatever reason, people weren't compelled to reply.

Where can I read Raymer’s MTT posts?
The older archives are full of posts by the World Champ, they can be found here. (http://www.twoplustwo.com/archives.html). Fossilman knows the game as well as anyone and was never reluctant to offer his advice. Many of these posts are quite good, and 2+2 approached Raymer about writing a book based on them even before he won the WSOP. That book is forthcoming.

What sites have the best tournaments?
Generally PokerStars is considered the leader for MTTs. They lead the pack because they have a continuous stream of tournaments starting in an assortment of games/buy-ins, also they offer the preferred software and customer support. However, there are some advantageous to playing on other sites. For instance, smaller sites often offer overlays (where a guaranteed prize pool is actually higher than the actual buy-ins, and accordingly the site is contributing to the prize pool). Party Poker is a popular choice despite some problems with their software/customer service because on average players there seem to be less skilled. Ultimate Bet is also a good site for MTTs, many argue it offers the best tournament structures.

What is a good ROI/ITM%/FT%?
Difficult question to answer, generally many have said that any positive ROI is a good one, 100 is solid. As for ITM, anything over 10% is good, and MTT guru Sirio has said his records haven’t shown any player above 20% with a decent sample size (this is for online tournaments with fast structures, deeper stacks and slower levels should allow a skilled player to break that cap).

What is the bankroll requirement for playing MTTs?
Ring game players have their 300 BB rule of thumb, the MTT equivalent would be 50 buy-ins (note: includes vig). Accordingly, if you want to play 10+1$ tournaments, you would need 550$ roughly to keep yourself ample cushioning to handle variance. Of course, this rule is meant to be applied to freezeout not rebuy tournaments.

What’s the best way to keep records on my MTT performance?
Exitonly created a comprehensive Excel document for this purpose which he shares with anyone interested, or SnG tracker ( http://sng.pokercomment.com/) is a small piece of software which may also be handy.

Can I create final table sweat thread?
Sure, here are a few guidelines for that:
First off, such posts should not be created until you reach the final table. Also, when creating a new post, you have the option of selecting an icon to appear next to the title. For organization’s sake, we ask that sweat threads carry the /images/graemlins/heart.gif icon. Also, in the title should include the site, game and buy-in of the event, something like:
FT Sweat: Party NLHE 10+1
Finally, in the post itself, please remember to include your ID on the site in question.

Can I create a brag/gratitude thread?
Sometimes people like to create a thread after they've won an event to brag a little about their accomplishment and/or to thank the MTT forum for helping them with their game. These are fine, we like to hear that you are doing well and that people are getting something out of the forum.
Also, it has come up on occasion that people have felt so indebted to the forum after a large MTT win, they wonder if they should offer some financial compensation, the answer is no, although we might suggest that in the case of a big win, a donation to a charity of your choice might be in order. Paying back the forum is a simple as contributing wherever possible with insight and suggestions.

(LC)? (OT)?
Abbreviations for Low Content and Off-Topic respectively, should be used in thread titles on the rare (note: rare) occasions that someone posts something they want the forum to see but it is either fairly insignificant (LC) or not relevant (OT) to the discussion of tournament poker.

Which tournaments get *Official* threads? Can I create one?
Tournaments that get official threads are generally ones that are either very high profile or just attract a lot of 2+2ers. These include a slew of the big Sunday tournaments, the nightly 10+1$ rebuy on Stars and the 40K guaranteed on Party. If you are in a tournament and know that multiple other 2+2ers are as well, you may create an official thread, however do not do so until the tournament is already underway and ensure that such a thread does not already exist.

Why are Jurollo and Lloyd the mods?
They drew the short straws.

Where/How can I sell Poker Stars W$/T$
This thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3666819&amp;page=1&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=2#Post3793488) is reserved for that very purpose. We ask that discussions on the subject are limited to that area.

I have a question regarding a Stud/Omaha/other non-HE tournament, should I post it here or in the forum assigned to that game?
Plenty of regulars in this forum are well versed in all the games, feel free to begin a discussion on any of them.

What are the best books to read on the subject of MTTs?
Theory of Poker (http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html#Theory%20of%20Poker) by David Sklansky is required reading for playing winning poker.
Harrington on Hold ‘Em (http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html#Harrington%20Volume%20I) by Dan Harrington and Bill Robertie is a two volume look at NLHE MTTs. Although these books were published very recently, they became instant classics with good reason.
Tournament Poker for Advanced Players (http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html#Tournament%20Poker%20for%20Advanced%20P layers)
by David Sklansky is an in depth look at the tournament theory and concepts for players who are already proficient at poker.
Highly anticipated upcoming books include HoH III (a workbook) and a book by Greg Raymer’s book.

How should I play rebuys?
There is no set in stone way, here are a few guidelines:
2+2ers generally like to take an immediate rebuy (double your stack before you play the first hand) but many don’t do this. Taking the add-on however is all but compulsory, the only real time you shouldn’t be taking it is when you have very few chips at the end of the rebuy period and have given up on cashing in the tournament.
Accordingly, when considering playing a rebuy, realize that you need to be budgeted to spend 3-4 times the buy-in at least, playing a rebuy as if it were a freezeout and quiting if you lose your chips is ill-advised.
In terms of how you want to play during the rebuy period, you shouldn’t depart from your regular game too much. The main thing to do is take into consideration the way other people are playing and adjust accordingly, a lot of people play very loose/bad poker during the rebuy period determined to come out of it as the chip leader, you need to take advantage of that.
Also, Party Poker has a 'bug' affecting it's rebuy tournaments which allow players to rebuy whenever they are all-in (regardless of the outcome of the hand). The bug is pretty much common knowledge and used by many players. Whether or not you want to use it, it's somehting you should know about.

I play micro-buy-ins but can’t win because it is impossible to navigate these huge fields of fish since bluffs are always called and suck-outs are so common. Should I move up?
No, for two reasons. First off, fish and suck-outs are everywhere, regardless of buy-in. Secondly, if you can’t beat small MTTs, you won’t be able to beat the bigger ones.

What’s EV/cEV/$EV?
EV is expected value of a decision over the course of all possibilities. For instance, if I were to flip a coin offer you 1$ if you called it correctly, that would have a positive expected value for (it would be +EV), specifically you can say that the EV of each flip of the coin is 0.50$. Now let’s say I give you a 1$ if you call a coin flip correctly, but I charge you 0.55$ per flip to play the game. This is a wager you should not make, as it has a negative expected value (-EV).
When you are at the table, you not only want to make sure your moves are +EV, you want to maximize the expected value of them. For instance, if you pick up AA UTG in the first hand of a major tournament, pushing all-in right then and there is a move that has a positive expected value, but it is not the move you want to make because there are other approaches which offer a lot more.
cEV is Expected Value in Chips, in other words the chips that you will win/lose on a decision over the course of all possibilities.
$EV is Expected Value in Dollars, in other words the actual money that you will win/lose on a decision over the course of all possibilities.
In a cash game cEV=$EV because of course the chips are worth the amount they represent, however in a tournament this is not that case as the latter is contingent on payout structures and other considerations while the former is not.

What is the Gap Concept?
Coined by David Sklansky, the Gap Concept is a tournament phenomenon which states that it takes a stronger hand to call raise than it does to make a raise, even where the amount of chips being put in the pot is the same. There is a 'gap' between hands which meet the requirement for one and the other.

What is Folding Equity (FE)?
The potential that a bet/raise will cause all other players to fold and thus claim the pot and end the action. For instance, the folding equity of a pre-flop open push is contingent mainly on position and one the size of your stack (earlier postion and/or a smaller stack means lower FE).
The STT FAQ contains the following formula:
(Percentage of times all remaining opponents will fold to your bet)*(total chips you stand to gain when they do all fold)

What are M and Q?
Discussed in great depth HoH II, these concepts pertain to tournament endgames when the blinds and antes have becomes very significant.
M is simply the ration of stack to the current total of blinds and antes. For instance, if you are at a ten player table with t17,000 chips and the blinds are 5,000/10,000 with a 1,000 antes, your M would be just under 7 (170000/(5000+10000+10000) = 6.8). The most obvious application of M is that it tells you how many rounds at the table you can survive before being blinded off.
Q is the ratio of your stack to the average number of chips left for each player. So if you have t50,000 left and the average stack size is 10,000, your Q is 5 (50000/10000 = 5). Q gives you a general idea of your position in the tournament, though at the same time Harrington calls it the 'weak force', because it is not as powerful an indication of how aggressive you need to be as is M.

Can I ask for backing/a loan?
No. If you really, truly believe you have earned the right to make such a request, PM a mod first and ask for permission, though the answer will almost always be no and mod decisions on the matter are final.

What do the acronym/abbreviation mean?
For anything that is not on the list below, consult, this very comprehensive list of by 2+2 poster HoldingFolding (http://www.pokerstars.com/tlb_tournament_rankings.html)
Sats: Satellite
HoH: ‘Harrington on Hold ‘Em’
TPFAP: ‘Tournament Poker For Advanced Players’
TOP: ‘Theory of Poker’
ROI: Return on Investment
Mod: Moderator
LL: Last longer prop bets. Generally held for some Poker Stars events and initiated by one of the known MTT posters. (note: in other contexts, LL can also mean low-limit)
PP: Party Poker
PS: Poker Stars
TLB: Tournament Leader Board, generally referring to the one on Poker Stars (http://www.pokerstars.com/tlb_tournament_rankings.html)
R+A: Rebuy/Add-on tournaments
ITM: In the money.
AI: All-in
HE: Hold ‘Em
PLO: Pot-Limit Omaha
O8: Omaha Eight or Better
WPT forum: 2+2s World poker Tour and other Televised Tournaments forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&amp;Board=tv)
PM: Private Message
WCOOP: World Championship of Online Poker on PokerStars.
Party 40K/Stars 45K/…: Refer to tournaments on these sites with guaranteed prize pools of the amount specified.
FPP: Frequent Player Points

[MrWookie47]

I had this same problem before the upgrade. However, if I removed the code I had pasted and then typed it in manually, it still didn't work. Instant code didn't work. I'm not sure what the deal is. It might be a function of the length of the post.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

Do ANY of you use threaded mode? It seems to me that it is easy to tell who is responding to who in threaded mode, but nearly impossible in flat mode. Am I correct, or are you guys complaining about something else altogether?

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
Do ANY of you use threaded mode? It seems to me that it is easy to tell who is responding to who in threaded mode, but nearly impossible in flat mode. Am I correct, or are you guys complaining about something else altogether?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure they're talking about threaded mode.

I find it ridiculously easy to follow the conversations in flat mode. The one time in 5000 or so I'm confused, there's the little link to help me.

[MrWookie47]

As I posted in Dcifr's post, it seems that the posting screen "times out" after a while. It didn't seem to do this in the previous version. If you take too long typing up a post, the system times out and refuses to post it.

[durron597]

I recieved this PM today...

[ QUOTE ]
From: DrPhysic (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showprofile.php?Cat=0&amp;User=5158)

Besides the problems with search etc that have been noted, I may have just found another one. When I click on the top item in a thread (in threaded mode if that matters) the screen changes to a post in that thread rather randomly. It is almost always NOT the OP which is the one i clicked on.

I have not heard anybody else complain about this. It could be because I am using Firefox and not IE. They are not always identical.

Just thought I should pass this on. The new "upgrade" so far needs a lot of help.

Doc


[/ QUOTE ]

[BottlesOf]

Yea it's easy to tell, but it's incorrect, as is evident from the post I made. It appears to be one thing, but then when I click to read it changes, as I pointed out in my above posted.

[AngryCola]

We were all talking about threaded mode.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I believe that I have found and fixed the bug that was making the display inconsistent. Somebody please check and confirm.

I'm working on the expiring form problem but that may take a while. What else, specifically, should I be spending time on?

Chuck

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
What else, specifically, should I be spending time on?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) A majority of people miss unread posts being bolded in threaded mode. Now they are all the same color, and the only indicator for read/unread is the little icon to the left of each post.

2) The forum doesn't seem to be tracking 'unread' posts correctly. Threads started today, which I have not read, list only one or two of the posts as being unread.
This was a small issue before the upgrade, but now it is worse.

EDIT- Oddly enough, this issue doesn't seem to be as bad today, but it's still something you should look into if you haven't made any related modifications in the last couple of days.

3) The threaded mode ordering should be changed to what is was before the upgrade so long as it won't bring back the anomaly of posts shifting order after selecting them (the issue JBB pointed out so well).

[citanul]

the secondary column of thread icons seems to make no sense really. particularly i guess the problem is the silly folder icons. if you could just make it so that every time when a folder shows up, no graphic shows up instead, that'd be hot as a start. either that, or have the folders showing up mean something.

c

[MrWookie47]

Huh. It looks like when someone ninja bumps a thread, the thread will appear boled and colored on the main page (beige highlight in Infopop 2) as if it has new posts, but no new posts in red. Clicking on the thread and looking at it does not change its status from beige to white. This is a pretty minor issue, however.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh. It looks like when someone ninja bumps a thread, the thread will appear boled and colored on the main page (beige highlight in Infopop 2) as if it has new posts, but no new posts in red. Clicking on the thread and looking at it does not change its status from beige to white. This is a pretty minor issue, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

man ninjabumpers should all just die.

[MrWookie47]

Uh oh. I think something just got fixed too much. Now, I'll see several threads in a forum with unread messages. I'll read one. I'l return to the forum, and all the threads are marked as having all been read.

[MrWookie47]

Weird. Now it seems to be working.

[DcifrThs]

... you click out of the thread without finishing reading all the unread posts in that thread.

kind of annoying...especially if you want to come back later to read the unread posts in a thread...then you come back and can't tell which ones are which.

Barron

[MrWookie47]

Any idea why the censor didn't work in this post:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3852314&amp;page=0&amp;vc=1

Also, the post number under the post title highlights like it's a link when you move the mouse over it. However, the mouse arrow doesn't turn into a finger, instead it stays as the I. Clicking on it does nothing. Is this supposed to be a link?

[stabn]

If you see something like that hit quote wookie and it'll show you exactly what he typed. Stuey decided to get out of the filter:

"As for fuc[/b]ker I also like making his life hard and he is no friend of mine. /images/graemlins/grin.gif"

he typed [censored] as f u c [ / b ] k e r (minus the spaces).

[MrWookie47]

ok. He must have changed that in the quote then. In an earlier post, it came up as [censored] properly, since he was referring to the mod.

[BruceZ]

Others have mentioned the back button deleting posts, but even worse, posts are "expiring" if you simply take too long to complete the creation of the post. Then when you hit the post key, you get the white screen of death, and all of your hard work is lost. I have experienced this myself, as well as having received complaints about it. I put a sticky warning about this in the probability forum (where posts containing long calculations are common) and I suggest that others do the same until this is fixed. This needs to be fixed post haste, as it will simply discourage the best posters from making valuable contributions.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

This is the one I am most actively working on. Please be patient.

[Lloyd]

After typing out a long post and accidentally hitting my mouse button that takes my browser back a page, only to lose all of my work, I'm wondering if we're any closer to a fix here?

[Mat Sklansky]

Chuck to date thinks this unfixable. I am now fully in support of new forum software.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I do not believe that this is fixable. I do not understand why it is happening and the people who provide the software claim it must be browser settings which is bull.

As to new forum software, I'd appreciate it if people would play with some software I'm testing at
http://fusionforum.twoplustwo.com/fusionbb.php?

This should be fully functional, but keep in mind that whatever you post here will not be kept permanently.

Please send any comments to me via e-mail to weinstock@conjelco.com.

Chuck

[astroglide]

http://forums.storagereview.net/ is an example of a fairly high-volume invision power board site

[Lloyd]

Well, it never happened before but I trust you've looked into this quite a bit.

What's the logon for the other site? Any other software you're considering? I've been looking into Drupal and Joomla for a professional community I'm building - both open source and highly configurable. I'm also looking at a couple of commercial applications like CommunityZero, Communispace, and Squarespace.

If you're going to change forum software, it could be a good opportunity to consider additional features like blogging, messaging, reference center for articles and other knowledge, calendar (I could definitely see some value in that with MTT), and some other cool things. I think there are some simple and cost-effective ways of making 2+2 even more valuable to its constituents. I'm happy to help if I can be of assistance.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

The invision software seems to not support threading. We need that feature at least.

Chuck

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]

As to new forum software, I'd appreciate it if people would play with some software I'm testing at
http://fusionforum.twoplustwo.com/fusionbb.php?

This should be fully functional, but keep in mind that whatever you post here will not be kept permanently.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't figure out how to get at anything. When I click on a forum it asks me to login, I login, and then I can't find the forum index anymore.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
The invision software seems to not support threading. We need that feature at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is threading wanted, much less needed? the first thing virtually every thinking member does here is enable flat mode, and i don't know of a single large/successful forum (i'm on a lot of them) that uses threaded modes. it's just not an effective way to see new posts.

[B Dids]

Agreed. Threaded mode is really weird.

The "lost posts on back button" seems to be that it's loaded a new version of the page every time, rather than using what's cached in the browser.

I find that this is true when I ignore somebody- if I go back, it reloads the page and I don't see their posts, whereas before the update you would have to refresh the page before this took place.

Frankly- this is how I'd prefer it. A good rule of thumb for composing long posts online is to ALWAYS work offline for exactly these reasons. It's something we tell our students (I work in online learning) a lot. Someting will eventually screw up and losing work sucks.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The invision software seems to not support threading. We need that feature at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is threading wanted, much less needed? the first thing virtually every thinking member does here is enable flat mode, and i don't know of a single large/successful forum (i'm on a lot of them) that uses threaded modes. it's just not an effective way to see new posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use flat mode, but I do look to see who the response was to. And I don't think the invision board says that.

craig

[Mat Sklansky]

I personally agree 100% except for one thing. Mason and David read in threaded mode. I generally have to "force" Mason to put things in flat mode when we discuss threads, and even then he won't do it unless he has trouble finding the post he's looking for. This tells me that many people not familiar with computers may be doing the same.

[astroglide]

the original 2+2 forum was a threaded thing too. i would suggest that threading isn't what's natural to people, only that david and mason learned that way and thus it's normal for them.

if it were a case of general usability i'm certain you'd find threading by default on major forums, and see threading as a 'feature' of modern/popular board software.

[Mat Sklansky]

I think you're right, but it would be a very tough sell

[astroglide]

i certainly realize that they're very important customers.

if this is pitched by saying 'hey there's less desireable/proven stuff over here that might work that supports threads' i'm sure it could be a tough sell. if it's something like 'look we can't do what we need to do if we limit ourselves to specific antiquated features' i would think it would be easier. forum users are totally accustomed to flat mode by default. it's standard.

'would be' is a pretty scary phrasing too. has a decision already been virtually locked already?

[GuyOnTilt]

Mat,

If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

GoT

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be so awesome. Do any boards (at all) support LaTeX now?

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be so awesome. Do any boards (at all) support LaTeX now?

[/ QUOTE ]
Physicsforums does. That's the only other forum I frequent, so I don't know of any others.

GoT

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it would be better to focus on 'real' issues right now instead of esoteric, back-burner stuff like advanced technical typesetting.

until the big things are sorted out suggestions like this are just going to be distractions.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it would be better to focus on 'real' issues right now instead of esoteric, back-burner stuff like advanced technical typesetting.

until the big things are sorted out suggestions like this are just going to be distractions.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're def right. It's just things like splitting forums, adding new ones, etc can be done anytime. And I don't know [censored] about programming or anything but I would think that something like supporting LaTeX would be something that could only be changed when making major reformatting changes. So if this is the last time in a few years 2+2 is able to make that change... You get what I mean, but yeah, I know [censored] about this stuff so if it's possible to make that change whenever, I'll shut up.

GoT

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

If you're seriously considering getting new forum software, please please please support LaTeX.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

how is it that you moved up on my coolness and dorkness ladders simultaneously.

c

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally agree 100% except for one thing. Mason and David read in threaded mode. I generally have to "force" Mason to put things in flat mode when we discuss threads, and even then he won't do it unless he has trouble finding the post he's looking for. This tells me that many people not familiar with computers may be doing the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, I'm one of these morons using threaded mode. Why is flat better? And does it make a difference that I'm using collapsed? Please tell me I'm once again an idiot and old (I love being the outcast, even in a subculture of outcasts).

I like to know who responded to who and in what order. I can't seem to get that with flat mode. Am I missing something? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

And I've been on the Internet for over ten years, so I'm no newbie, I just kind of stick with what I like. No, I'm not crazy about the software here, but it's a frigging free service, so I don't complain (I don't get why people are always whining about 2+2, just shut up already and take the bad with the good!), but I seem to be the minority in this school of thought. Oh, well, no change there, I'm used to being the minority. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[bobbyi]

I use both flat and threaded depending on the situation (e.g., if a thread has a million replies and I'm only semi-interested, as is often the case in the OOT, I skim in flat). But I think threaded is definitely useful very often. I really don't like having to read always in flat mode. In my experience, forums where everyone is forced to use flat mode have much lower quality discussions because the interface is so bad for big threads that want to fork in different directions.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
I use both flat and threaded depending on the situation (e.g., if a thread has a million replies and I'm only semi-interested, as is often the case in the OOT, I skim in flat). But I think threaded is definitely useful very often. I really don't like having to read always in flat mode. In my experience, forums where everyone is forced to use flat mode have much lower quality discussions because the interface is so bad for big threads that want to fork in different directions.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're basically saying I'm not the only moron? /images/graemlins/grin.gif Welcome to the club /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

How old are you? How long have you been on the Internet? More interrogations to come... /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Yes, I'm in a weird, tongue-in-cheek mood today.

[B Dids]

Maybe it's just 'cause I've been internetting forever, and always used flat forums, and have a stupidly good memory, but I've never had trouble following the discussion on a flat board.

I even functionally read usenet flat, so maybe I'm just insane.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, forums where everyone is forced to use flat mode have much lower quality discussions because the interface is so bad for big threads that want to fork in different directions.

[/ QUOTE ]

what huge threaded forums are you reading?

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just 'cause I've been internetting forever, and always used flat forums, and have a stupidly good memory, but I've never had trouble following the discussion on a flat board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here. I have no problem with ppl using threaded though. *cough* NOOBS! *Cough*

Surf

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Same here. I have no problem with ppl using threaded though. *cough* NOOBS! *Cough*

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]
How can I be a newbie? Or Noob? I've been on 2+2 longer than you!

That's it. Fight, fight! I can whip you in a wet noodle contest, I guarantee it! Let's take this outside /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with ppl using threaded though. *cough* NOOBS! *Cough*

[/ QUOTE ]
When I started reading twoplustwo, there was no "flat mode". Before we switched to this awful UBB [censored], we used the old forum software and everything was displayed in a mode equivalent to today's "threaded" mode. So that's what I got used to. So I'm pretty sure the people who have only ever seen flat mode are the noobs. I guess flat mode feels natural to people whose interent experience consists entirely of reading comments on their livejournals, but for those of us who are used to real interent forums like slashdot, plastic, k5, etc. that have a "nested" mode for discussions, flat mode sucks.

[Surfbullet]

That was kind of the joke. A little too subtle, sry.

Surf

[astroglide]

slashdot isn't a forum, and i think comparing them and 2+2 shows a really fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to this stuff.

slashdot is a news site. it has tons of visitors, and *VERY FEW* topics. if posts were in flat mode, even moderated, it would result in a billion pages of comments because everybody discusses the specific news topic. if 2+2 only had 5 new threads per day, it would have the same 'problem'. slashdot also relies on its community moderation to separate the wheat from the chaff.

avsforum is a forum. storagereview is a forum. hardocp is a forum. anandtech is a forum. arstechnica is a forum. battle.net is a forum. etc. huge user bases, lots of posts, and no threading. it is absolutely standard. veterans are only accustomed to it around here because of the old 2+2's style, and i would suggest that only the 'non-internet type' veterans continue to read in threaded mode because they don't know any different.

[bobbyi]

Fine, I give up. You are apparently going to turn this into pointless semantics about what constitutes a "forum" and only things that don't allow nested comments count, so when people discuss movies on IMDB it's not functioning as a "forum", when people read usenet using any newsreader that shows things threaded it's not functioning equivalently to a forum, etc.

If you think that slashdot isn't a forum, then you haven't spent much time there. Yes, it has headlines on the frontpage and you have the option of just reading headlines in which case it is a news site. But a large portion of the populace there is there to argue and debate just like here and most of them don't even read the articles. The only practical difference between those sites and the forums you name is whether it requires approval to post a story/ start a thread.

[astroglide]

it's pretty simple: it's a forum when people go there for the sole purpose of reading and making posts.

this isn't a personal agenda, it's for the forum's future/growth. if you're 'giving up' already i can't imagine that you've thought through your position thoroughly enough to care, and instantly interpreting my response as a bias-selected group for the sake of semantic argument is just silly. how does a person with such instant judgements even become a moderator? i'm obviously not just throwing words around here lightly.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're 'giving up' already i can't imagine that you've thought through your position thoroughly enough to care, and instantly interpreting my response as a bias-selected group for the sake of semantic argument is just silly. how does a person with such instant judgements even become a moderator? i'm obviously not just throwing words around here lightly.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are inferring more than what's in bobby's post IMO, and the bold part struck me as particularly ironic.

Surf

[bobbyi]

I said I've "given up" because you want to turn this into personal attacks and name-calling rather than having a discussion. It's swell that your favorite forums use flat mode. I am sorry I offended you by saying that some people sometimes find threaded mode useful.

[FeliciaLee]

Jeez, when did this turn so vicious? Can't we all just get along /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I've already threatened Surf with a wet noodle fight, maybe you two should just take it outside, too. Of course, Surf hasn't even condescended to respond to my challenge. Perhaps I should blackmail him with those pics I found on the Internet in my threaded forum. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

At least I have a date with Astroglide. Don't forget to bring some with you, we might need it /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Astro! (http://www.lubery.com/store/comersus_viewitem.asp?idproduct=3324)

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I said I've "given up" because you want to turn this into personal attacks and name-calling rather than having a discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

you originally cited your reason for giving up was that i was turning it to semantics. i can assure you that i wasn't, and i provided a clear and simple definition to back up this point.

now you're saying you gave up because i turned it into a personal attack? could you please quote my personal attack against you that happened before you said you gave up?

the entire point of my involvement here is to have a discussion with the forum's best interest in mind.

people go imdb to look up movie/tv facts, and they MIGHT read or make a post. people go to amazon.com to make purchases, and they MIGHT read or make a comment. people go to slashdot for news. people go to fark for links. etc. they are not pure forums, and thus shouldn't be used for direct comparison as operational models.

as with the other forum examples i gave above, people go to the 2+2 forums to make and read posts. there is nothing that can be done on the 2+2 forum other than making and reading posts.

the fake "i'm sorry if i offended you" comment is both indirect and childish.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]

I've already threatened Surf with a wet noodle fight, maybe you two should just take it outside, too. Of course, Surf hasn't even condescended to respond to my challenge. Perhaps I should blackmail him with those pics I found on the Internet in my threaded forum. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

*runs and hides*

Seriously though, my post was completely humorous...especially because the longer someone has been around 2+2 the more likely they are to read in threaded mode - i've only gone over to the dark side since about a year ago.

But, if it's a wet noodle fight you want, it's a wet noodle fight you'll get! *Rolls up sleeves*

Surf

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
You are inferring more than what's in bobby's post IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

it wasn't an inferrence. he suggested in plain english that i was resorting to semantics, which was a hasty and incorrect judgement.

this is a private and purposeful discussion among moderators. even if he thinks that might be the case, he could afford to give me more of a benefit of a doubt. i'm a reasonable person.

[FeliciaLee]

FWIW, Glenn is in agreement with the masses. He is a FLAT man, which is probably a good thing, since I am now the proud owner of a bi-lateral mastectomy /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

God, I crack myself up...masses, flat, why doesn't anyone else think I'm as funny as I do? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But I digress, lol, the point is, he sort of explained to me the advantages (and one disadvantage) of flat mode. At least someone finally had the courage (or was threatened enough, I still can't tell) to explain why flat is better, and why threaded can be temporarily used to figure out who is responding to who, and in what order, when a thread becomes too big.

Since FLAT is in, and I seem to be in a situation of being flat permanently, I'll sing the praises of flat, flat, FLAT. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Besides, if we change software, I probably won't have a choice.

I am, however, leaving my settings on threaded. Even if, I, personally am FLAT. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
could you please quote my personal attack against you that happened before you said you gave up?

[/ QUOTE ]
"a really fundamental lack of understanding", "only the 'non-internet type' veterans continue to read in threaded mode because they don't know any different"

It's clear that you have a different attitudes towards these discussions than I do and I don't find your attitude constructive which is why I said I "give up". Despite saying that you want what is best for the forum, you seem mostly fixated on proving who is right and who is wrong, and to be frank, I think I am mature enough that my ego is not caught up in proving whether I can come up with the best definition of the word "forum" and so forth. If you think that you are completely right here, then that is swell. All I was trying to comment was that some people do find threaded mode useful sometimes since some people were saying that isn't the case. This shouldn't be make or break issue on what forum software we use. Is that really such a big deal?

[astroglide]

neither of those statements were intended as personal attacks. if somebody told me i had a fundamental lack of understanding of something and proceeded to illustrate their point, i could agree with them and i not be offended. i can see how you interpreted my statement in that way. slashdot and 2+2 are truly apples and oranges, though, and i think i have elucidated that point fairly well. the veteran comment was a generalization, and i still believe it to be accurate.

i am completely supportive of threaded stuff in 'news' contexts like slashdot, by the way. i wouldn't want to see slashdot turned into a standard forum, and i think it's a bad way to have directed conversation about specific subjects in short bursts. i think the 2+2 MAGAZINE would be better off if it were done exactly like slashdot - summary of article, you click it to read more, and threaded discussion would be on the same page. it's kludgy and non-intuitive to read something, then go to a separate shoehorned place to discuss it.

the vast majority of DEDICATED FORUMS that i am aware of employ flat mode by default, and i believe the reason why is that it is superior in terms of usability. i never disagreed that some people enjoy threaded mode. my suggestion is that catering to that minority when evaluating alternative forum software would be a bad thing. it's not a standard feature, and a forum of this size should not be limited to less proven/scaleable solutions.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are inferring more than what's in bobby's post IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

it wasn't an inferrence. he suggested in plain english that i was resorting to semantics, which was a hasty and incorrect judgement.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
if you're 'giving up' already i can't imagine that you've thought through your position thoroughly enough to care, and instantly interpreting my response as a bias-selected group for the sake of semantic argument is just silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

all of this is conjecture.

Your original reply, while it elaborated somewhat, spent more time harping on the definition of "forum" - and was worded aggressively...more to be right than to be helpful.

FWIW I read in flat mode but i'm totally indifferent - I think we should go with the best forum software even if I have to go back to reading in threaded mode.

Surf

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I read in flat mode but i'm totally indifferent - I think we should go with the best forum software even if I have to go back to reading in threaded mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

if threaded mode is enforced i am certain that 2+2 would see an exodus of users. a forum of OOT's activity level, for example, would rapidly become unusable.

mandating support for it is functionally limiting in terms of software solutions. i think enabling it by default is a bad thing, and forcing it would be downright disastrous.

[Mat Sklansky]

There's no chance that we would go exclusively to threaded mode. There is some chance we would go only to flat, but I'm really hoping we can find a way to keep both options.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]

if threaded mode is enforced i am certain that 2+2 would see an exodus of users. a forum of OOT's activity level, for example, would rapidly become unusable.

mandating support for it is functionally limiting in terms of software solutions. i think enabling it by default is a bad thing, and forcing it would be downright disastrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. I was exagerrating to illustrate a point - that the overall quality of the software should be of greatest concern.

Surf

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really hoping we can find a way to keep both options

[/ QUOTE ]

i honestly hope it's feasible too. if any feature a number of people want can be afforded, it should be.

the problem is that the enterprise-oriented forum software like vbulletin, ipb, fusetalk, etc doesn't seem to support it.

as a user i'm slightly partial to ipb, which could be seen as a 'grown-up' phpbb. vbulletin is the most widely-used/liked enterprise forum software out there.

if it were my forum to run, my first choice would be vbulletin, and i would look down the tree if i ran into a showstopper.

MASSIVE use and commercial support (including phone) is a big deal. look at http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=47430 - i would consider somethingawful's forums to be a standard of 'massive'. 31 million posts. 5,500 users LOGGED IN right now.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

With any luck I've fixed the "back" button problem.

Chuck

[stabn]

You rock chuck. A quick check of two cases where it really annoyed me looks fixed.

[stabn]

It seems to be but now i keep getting this when trying to reply to your new post:

The form you have submitted is no longer valid.

Please use your back button to return to the previous page.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

Test of replying.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

Really? I can't duplicate it. And it looked like you did reply?

Chuck

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
With any luck I've fixed the "back" button problem.

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that *no page* is updating when I first click on it. When I press refresh, though, it fixes it.

I am on Safari at the moment if that helps.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With any luck I've fixed the "back" button problem.

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that *no page* is updating when I first click on it. When I press refresh, though, it fixes it.

I am on Safari at the moment if that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually how things used to work. Hitting the back button wouldn't refresh what posts you had viewed, but if you refreshed, or if you clicked on a link to reload the forum, it would be updated. I think that it's probably impossible to have a system where the back button refreshes the forum of what you've read, but that doesn't wipe your post. Personally, I'd rather that the back button doesn't wipe my post.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? I can't duplicate it. And it looked like you did reply?

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to happen because of / after the following:

I viewed the thread afte ryou posted by cklicking on the 'thead' link i get with threadded which directs me here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3830907&amp;an=0&amp;page=0&amp;gone w=1#UNREAD)

That link currently brings me to you post in this thread saying that you think you fixed it. However, if i reply to that i get the above. Also when i go to that right now (and even if i refresh the page w/ f5), it shows that as the last reply in this thread. I have to trim &amp;gonew=1#unread to see the new replies in this thread / succesfully reply. Actually Successfully is a bit wrong. My replies seemed to go through anyway i believe. I just got that error message and don't see new replies but my reply did go through i believe.

[GuyOnTilt]

WTF happened to the left columns on threads? There's no icons for OP choice or lock/sticky. Fix plz?

GoT

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Really? I can't duplicate it. And it looked like you did reply?

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to happen because of / after the following:

I viewed the thread afte ryou posted by cklicking on the 'thead' link i get with threadded which directs me here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3830907&amp;an=0&amp;page=0&amp;gone w=1#UNREAD)

That link currently brings me to you post in this thread saying that you think you fixed it. However, if i reply to that i get the above. Also when i go to that right now (and even if i refresh the page w/ f5), it shows that as the last reply in this thread. I have to trim &amp;gonew=1#unread to see the new replies in this thread / succesfully reply. Actually Successfully is a bit wrong. My replies seemed to go through anyway i believe. I just got that error message and don't see new replies but my reply did go through i believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW this seems fixed after i deleted my browser cache.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I've had to undo the change I made to fix the back button as it caused problems worse than it fixed.

I think I know what I need to do to fix it right, but I won't have time until later today or possibly tomorrow.

Chuck

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I've redone the back button fix and hopefully it will behave better this time. Let me know if it doesn't please.

Chuck

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
I've redone the back button fix and hopefully it will behave better this time. Let me know if it doesn't please.

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

Hot damn. We get to have our back button refreshing the forum AND not wiping our posts? AND he did it quickly? This is awesome. Everything seems to be working fine for me. Chuck is the man.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck is the man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Working fine for me.

Surf

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I have had to back out the back button fix yet again.

Some users were unable to post and this is the only thing that has changed since that began.

I will continue to look at the problem.

Chuck

[B Dids]

We're they unable to post, or just unable to see that they'd posted because of cacheing issues.

I know Joe Tall was claiming he couldn't post, and in reality he'd posted the same thing 4 times.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

I don't know for sure. I am on the road and only have
access once or twice a day right now and I did not want
to take a chance.

Chuck

[Entity]

Will there ever be the possibility to do a search for user by IP address? This would be really helpful in searching for recurring trolls. The software that I use most frequently for adminning/moderating, FuseTalk, supports this and it helps us cut down on trolls very well at a very large forum (~120k users).

Rob

[Mat Sklansky]

Chuck is telling me that I shouldn't be doing any ip bans, as that leads to innocent people getting banned as well. Especially aol members.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck is telling me that I shouldn't be doing any ip bans, as that leads to innocent people getting banned as well. Especially aol members.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't need to be able to do IP bans, just IP searches. Searching to see what users have posted from XXX IP (known troll IP, for example) helps to know who is or will be a troll, etc.

Rob

[astroglide]

chuck, could quick reply be modified so that it always responds to the original post instead of the most recent post?

[BottlesOf]

or better yet, to the post you're reading when you hit quick reply (assuming you are reasing a single post, as you would in threaded mode)

[MrWookie47]

That would be a truly beautiful thing.