($5.50)Getting the most out of quads

Early in the tournament, BB has already busted out a donk and appears to be decent player. I flopped the near lock hand. I know I played it poorly. How could I have extracted more from the hand?


Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t1450)
UTG+1 (t980)
MP1 (t1450)
MP2 (t2660)
Hero (t1485)
CO (t1265)
Button (t1660)
SB (t1450)
BB (t2600)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls t30, SB calls t30.

Turn: (t210) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, Hero calls t30, SB calls t30.

River: (t300) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t390</font>, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t720

[durron597]

I would raise the flop. The problem with slowplaying is that unless your opponent decides to play the hand aggressively you are not going to get a lot of chips in the middle.

Raise the flop, and then if he calls give him a difficult decision by making a small bet that basically ties him to the pot but is hard to fold.

Take advantage of the fact that you have position on your opponent to get him to commit himself with some sort of jack or PP.

[Phill S]

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Early in the tournament, BB has already busted out a donk and appears to be decent player. I flopped the near lock hand. I know I played it poorly. How could I have extracted more from the hand?


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I wouldnt say you played it poorly. When you have a monster like that its the second best hand which defines the size of the pot.

In this case i would raise less on the river - he is minbetting, but he isnt liking his hand. A raise to 200 feels more like it.

[Indiana]

durron,

wouldnt you let them catch up a little and raise the turn? Perhaps raising the flop is correct because they will stay more often than on the turn?

Indy

[durron597]

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durron,

wouldnt you let them catch up a little and raise the turn? Perhaps raising the flop is correct because they will stay more often than on the turn?

Indy

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People like to stay in with flush draws on the flop because they have two cards to come. Plus I only have 3 chances to build this pot and I don't want to waste one of them on a 30 chip bet.

I would just call the flop if they led out for the full pot.

[Indiana]

How much do you raise on this flop?

Indy

I like the flop raise as well. Maybe raise another 60 or 90?? With 3 actors the other two sniff a nine real quick if everyone just calls. A medium raise here looks like a semi bluff flush draw and may get the paired J's to act. Also makes the draws commit some chips as well and build a pot slowly as Durron mentioned. Even if a flush drops I suspect a good player is not going to give you a lot of action at the river. He will wonder why you let a flush draw out so cheaply??

[Indiana]

So you say that you would give your hand away on the flop for 60 more chips?

Indy

[tigerite]

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So you say that you would give your hand away on the flop for 60 more chips?

Indy

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That's just it though. I would raise with a draw here as well. So how can they tell which it is?

[durron597]

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So you say that you would give your hand away on the flop for 60 more chips?

Indy

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That's just it though. I would raise with a draw here as well. So how can they tell which it is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I might raise like JT/QJ/KJ here too.

Thats just it. Betting will disguise your hand. 60 or 90 still gives a flush draw decent odds to call and makes the pot big enough for someone to throw a sizeable bluff. Also look for a steal attempt if the flush doesn't drop on the turn.

[tigerite]

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So you say that you would give your hand away on the flop for 60 more chips?

Indy

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That's just it though. I would raise with a draw here as well. So how can they tell which it is?

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I might raise like JT/QJ/KJ here too.

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Yes, I might also.. but I was talking about unmade hands /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[durron597]

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So you say that you would give your hand away on the flop for 60 more chips?

Indy

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That's just it though. I would raise with a draw here as well. So how can they tell which it is?

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I might raise like JT/QJ/KJ here too.

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Yes, I might also.. but I was talking about unmade hands /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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Oh yea, I'm raising 88 here 100% of the time too. I would make it 120 total.

[nuclear500]

Quads in an unraised pot, given the buyin, I minraise him on the flop. He bet 1/4 the pot. That kind of bet is a gutless feeler bet with a weak Jack.

He will check to you on the turn, if not minraise him again. Bet a little under half the pot on the turn otherwise. If he calls, fine, if he folds fine. You've got the deck crippled, you can't go nuts or they're going to know you have at least one nine.

Little under half pot or just over a quarter on the river. Your goal is to extract as much possible with a practically unbeatable hand - unless he has a flush or Jacks full, you won't be getting much more out of him.

Agreed you probably got the most out of him you could 80% of the time, but I would try to induce a bluff here. One question, why do you think BB lead out with 30 on flop? Even a paired Jack would make a bigger stab than 30?Typically when I see this play the initial bettor is begging to get a raise and then check raises to take down the pot. This works well when you have the set and also works well as a bluff (especially with a flush draw)? I think you raise him here and you just may get some action, or you can just call and sneak out another 60 or 90 chips? To me just calling screams "I am not afraid of the flush".

[ QUOTE ]
One question, why do you think BB lead out with 30 on flop?

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At a 5.50, this is usually because the guy doesn't like the slider.

Flop: If you call here with intent to raise later, a good % of 5.50ers will put you on trips (40% maybe. I use this as a bluff against some players with great success). If you raise here, the vast majority of 5.50ers are sticking in with a J or any draw.

Turn: This is a great turn for you and you can't waste it by slowplaying. When you've got a great hand and there are draws out, don't wait til the river to bet because you lose money from missed draws.