PDA

View Full Version : Don't make me snap you off ($55)

ChrisV
11-01-2005, 07:42 AM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP1 (t990)
MP2 (t975)
Hero (t955)
CO (t1295)
Button (t2085)
SB (t1090)
BB (t970)
UTG (t640)
UTG+1 (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t60, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t142.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, Button calls t100.

Turn: (t342.50) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (t342.50) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t450</font>


Anyone calling here? Or have any issues with the play so far?
tigerite
11-01-2005, 07:44 AM
It depends what you hope to achieve on the river (by checking) and how Button has doubled up so far, for me.
Hendricks433
11-01-2005, 07:50 AM
What about making a smallish river blocking bet? The reason he doubled up would be real nice here too.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 07:51 AM
I wasn't hoping to achieve anything by checking the river. I checked because if I bet I wouldn't make any better hands fold and most likely wouldn't get calls from any worse hands.

I was ten tabling so I had no idea how the button had doubled up.

EDIT: I just checked the history and he doubled up with aces, which doesn't really help much.
Kristian
11-01-2005, 07:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Anyone calling here? Or have any issues with the play so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

No and no, not without reads.
Hendricks433
11-01-2005, 08:07 AM
I def fold to his bet. My only question is there a better way to play it which Im not sure. I think he makes this river bet with anything considering youve told him you had AK or AQ and missed and are willing to fold.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 08:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I def fold to his bet. My only question is there a better way to play it which Im not sure. I think he makes this river bet with anything considering youve told him you had AK or AQ and missed and are willing to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense. If you think he does it with anything, then call.

"Blocking bets" in general are weak. They don't dissuade decent players from bluffing (in fact, they tend to encourage me to bluff) and they don't help you if you're behind. Usually they're a way for people to avoid (or give the illusion of avoiding) difficult decisions.

He doesn't do it with anything anyway. If he had a medium hand - say 77 - there's no need to overbet like that. He'd either bet small for value or not bet at all.
tigerite
11-01-2005, 08:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't hoping to achieve anything by checking the river. I checked because if I bet I wouldn't make any better hands fold and most likely wouldn't get calls from any worse hands.

I was ten tabling so I had no idea how the button had doubled up.

EDIT: I just checked the history and he doubled up with aces, which doesn't really help much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I thought maybe you were doing it to induce a bluff by him representing the flush, or unlikely full house. The problem here is I can see him doing this bet with air, or with the full house in case you have the flush, but then again the bet amount seems too high.

It's a good post, I guess it depends how often you feel you are ahead here?
MegaBet
11-01-2005, 09:12 AM
lol, how can you even contemplate calling here?
11-01-2005, 09:14 AM
You played this the same way I almost always do though sometimes I fire another barrel on the turn, not often.

Do you mind my asking what you're doing playing the 55's? I'm hoping you have just been away from sng's for a while and are just warming up with the intention of moving up (away from me that is) soon.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
lol, how can you even contemplate calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

His betting is consistent with a made flush and something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif and not much else.
durron597
11-01-2005, 09:28 AM
Tough hand. He either has a worse ace high or a made flush. I really don't think your hand matters much here, if I decided to call it would be with AK or a 3.

I'd like to know how he doubled up before I made that decision.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mind my asking what you're doing playing the 55's?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 8 tabling. And occasionally 10 tabling.

I'm probably done with the Party 215s - I wrote some stuff about that in this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3823756&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Post 3823756). I don't have any immediate plans to move up but might well move to the 109s after a while. I think the 55s are pretty profitable and I also need to regain some confidence. I haven't won in some time, due partly to the reduced profitability of the 215s and partly to a vicious cold streak. My 34% ROI over my first 260 55s is going a long way towards rebuilding my ego /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. So far, I haven't regretted dropping limits.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know how he doubled up before I made that decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's up the thread a bit. I didn't know at the time because I was ten tabling, but it was with AA.
durron597
11-01-2005, 09:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know how he doubled up before I made that decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's up the thread a bit. I didn't know at the time because I was ten tabling, but it was with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, didn't see the edit.

Well, to me it kind of does matter, because if he slowplayed it then I would definitely fold here. If he fastplayed it then I would be more likely to call.
11-01-2005, 05:28 PM
If you want of another ego boost then FWIW I would say based on what I have read from your posts you are very well versed in sng theory and are surely one of the very best players at the 55's. If you would care to reveal your screen name I would certainly avoid you as much as I could. I don't practice much table selection but if I open a table and recognize say 2 out of the 3 seated which does happen I may just decide to wait for the next one. Anyhow please move up to the 100's soon.
pineapple888
11-01-2005, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
"Blocking bets" in general are weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they are value bets. The point is, how does your opponent know?
z32fanatic
11-01-2005, 05:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
lol, how can you even contemplate calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]
downtown
11-01-2005, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol, how can you even contemplate calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

His betting is consistent with a made flush and something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif and not much else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably add 22-JJ to the range, assuming QQ+ would reraise PF. He could have a set and play it donktastically like this. I wouldn't personally be able to narrow his range enough to find a call on the river here, though I don't have any problem with the way you played it.
good2cu
11-01-2005, 06:05 PM
Megabet all your posts are so helpful and constructive.
applejuicekid
11-01-2005, 06:33 PM
I'd be very suprised if he had a real hand here. I think this is nothing or a small pair. As you stated earlier it could be a bizarre value bet from a made flush. I think calling isn't so great because he could have a low pair, but I don't think you have enough chips to push him off the hand. So...I don't know. I'd be very tempted to call.
tigerite
11-01-2005, 08:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If you want of another ego boost then FWIW I would say based on what I have read from your posts you are very well versed in sng theory and are surely one of the very best players at the 55's. If you would care to reveal your screen name I would certainly avoid you as much as I could. I don't practice much table selection but if I open a table and recognize say 2 out of the 3 seated which does happen I may just decide to wait for the next one. Anyhow please move up to the 100's soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah, my stats are as good as his so far.. actually I might even be 1 or 2 points of ROI up.. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Seriously, yes, he's a very good player. I wish I knew his screenname too as I'm sure I've played him before without knowing it. Wouldn't surprise me if he was DoYouSeeWhy.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Blocking bets" in general are weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they are value bets. The point is, how does your opponent know?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because nothing changed from the turn to the river and I didn't bet the turn. It's hard to imagine me playing any good hand that way.
pineapple888
11-01-2005, 09:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Blocking bets" in general are weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they are value bets. The point is, how does your opponent know?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because nothing changed from the turn to the river and I didn't bet the turn. It's hard to imagine me playing any good hand that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah. I though you were talking in general.
adanthar
11-01-2005, 09:24 PM
Personally, I just check/fold the flop. I don't think a continuation bet into a big stack on this kind of board is very profitable if at all in the long run vs. a realistic range (he at least calls with big diamonds, most pairs with diamonds, some pairs without diamonds, etc.) and when you are ahead you tend to face decisions like that one on the river.

Having gotten here, I'd flip a coin.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:31 PM
I was lured by the overbet into calling. Not the kind of call I make very often. I still think he has either a made flush or unpaired high cards with a diamond here. He showed 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Not sure I'm crazy about his turn check but it's reasonable and worked out well for him.

Afterwards I decided I should have folded though I still don't think it's as clear cut as some of you seem to think. The major problem is that a lot of the guys at this limit simply never make these bluffs.
ChrisV
11-01-2005, 09:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't surprise me if he was DoYouSeeWhy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, not me. That's a poor choice of nick, I think. The guy's obviously a 2+2er and I'd move into overdrive blind stealing mode vs him.
11-02-2005, 03:14 AM
you are correct in that his play makes little sense, but you still should not call...

you should not risk going into the 400's early in the game because of your vastly superior SNG skill...

you'll be able to get your chips in later with a much more promising situation...