txag007: Bible content 1

As you said you can explain any of the contradictions in the bible. The last thread became too long and general, so I will start 1 specific point at a time. Number 1 in my list of preference is what I call

The 11th Commandment
You presumably accept the 10 commandments as the divine word of God. The paragraphs which follow the 10 commandments explain the rules for correct ownership of a Hebrew slave. If the Bible is literally correct and you cannot choose to accept 1 page and ignore the facing page then you must support slavery?

Of course, it could be that the bible was just represative of culture at the time and that their outdated views on slavery where just as outdated as their views on creation, but if it is the divine word of God it would be consistent whenever it was written.

Note. I realise you can easily contradict this by saying you support slavery and it is God's word, lets see...

Unkay. As an atheist, I would agree with you. As a former Christian, I would quickly point out two things:

1) Things change, the Bible is a living document, which needs constant interpretation.

2) As Jesus said, we must live by the spirit of the laws. Therefore, it could be argued that God wasn't telling them to own slaves, he was telling them the proper way to deal with one of the day's acceptable practices.

However, I AM an atheist, so I kinda am waiting for a Christian's rebuttal.

[David Sklansky]

"Therefore, it could be argued that God wasn't telling them to own slaves, he was telling them the proper way to deal with one of the day's acceptable practices."

Oh cmon.

I wonder what today's acceptable practices will not be so tomorrow! lol

[txag007]

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If the Bible is literally correct and you cannot choose to accept 1 page and ignore the facing page then you must support slavery?

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First of all, believing in the Bible does NOT mean that you have to support slavery. Before I explain what the Bible says about slavery, though, I want to make an important point about Christianity. There are certain laws given to the Hebrews in the Old Testament that we, as Christians, are no longer bound to today because of the sacrifice of Jesus in the New Testament. Think of it this way: God is completely, 100% holy. He, by definition, is good. He is so good that one has to be completely "clean" or holy to even be in His presence. Obviously, no one can accomplish this, thus the sacrifice of Jesus. In the Old Testament, however, certain laws given to the Hebrews were intended to keep them "clean". (Not eating pork, etc). Slavery is not one of these laws, but I wanted to make this important point anyway.

Obviously, I don't support slavery. Neither does the Bible. The Bible is not racist in any way.

Slavery, in the sense that you are thinking about it, is racism. That's not what it is talking about in the Bible. In Exodus 23:9, the law makes it clear that foreigners were NOT inferiors who could be mistreated. Leviticus 19:33-34, says that foreigners were to be loved as fellow Israelites.

Slavery, on the other hand, was a form of punishment or a form of work. Exodus 22:1-3 says that Hebrews could become slaves of fellow Hebrews if they committed a crime such as theft and had no other way to pay the fine. Also, this could happen if one became impoverished and sold himself into slavery. Either way, Leviticus 25:39-43 commands that slaves were to be treated as hired workers. They were to be freed after six years as per Exodus 21:2 and Dt. 15:12. Every 50th year, all slaves were to be freed. (Dt 15:12-15)

Also of note is that Dt 24:7 strictly forbids the kidnapping and selling of someone into slavery.

So yes, the owning of slaves was more of a cultural thing back then. God's instructions were specific to the Israelites. A person who follows the Bible is not required in any way to own slaves, nor is he allowed. The Bible says elsewhere to observe the laws of the land.

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God's instructions were specific to the Israelites. A person who follows the Bible is not required in any way to own slaves, nor is he allowed.

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So it was ok before and it is no longer.. interesting!

Also do you agree that God said it was correct that when your slave was released you still indefinitely own his wife and children?

[txag007]

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Also do you agree that God said it was correct that when your slave was released you still indefinitely own his wife and children?

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First of all, you are being a bit misleading to those reading this who might not have read the Bible. God specifically said that if you are married with kids before entering into slavery, you can take your family with you upon your exit. If you were single, though, before slavery and became married during, you had to leave your wife and kids unless you decided to stay as well.

As for the fairness of it, see this (http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html) website for a complete description of the practices of Hebrew slavery.

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1) Things change, the Bible is a living document, which needs constant interpretation.

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The Bible says elsewhere to observe the laws of the land.

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So, to summarize: when the Bible is wrong, just follow the Constitution.

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Slavery, in the sense that you are thinking about it, is racism.

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Why ever would you think I thought that? Perhaps you are American, and have strong specific images of slavery, I am not.

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So yes, the owning of slaves was more of a cultural thing back then. God's instructions were specific to the Israelites. A person who follows the Bible is not required in any way to own slaves, nor is he allowed. The Bible says elsewhere to observe the laws of the land.

[/ QUOTE ]

So to conclude, you do not believe these verses on the page opposite the 10 commandments are applicable today.

Therefore, you must not believe that those verses are the divine omnipotent word of God?

Given the certainty that those verses do not support your belief, this must cast into doubt the validity of the whole book?

[PrayingMantis]

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Before I explain what the Bible says about slavery, though, I want to make an important point about Christianity. There are certain laws given to the Hebrews in the Old Testament that we, as Christians, are no longer bound to today because of the sacrifice of Jesus in the New Testament. Think of it this way: God is completely, 100% holy. He, by definition, is good. He is so good that one has to be completely "clean" or holy to even be in His presence. Obviously, no one can accomplish this, thus the sacrifice of Jesus. In the Old Testament, however, certain laws given to the Hebrews were intended to keep them "clean". (Not eating pork, etc). Slavery is not one of these laws, but I wanted to make this important point anyway.

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This is getting completely crazy. I think this forum simply can not be titled "Science, math, philospohy" with so many posts and threads look like this one. It's an embarrassment for all: Science, Math AND philosophy.

Call it "Christians discuss The Bible in a simplistic way" forum and that's it. You are insulting your own intelligence with these discussions, people. It's really sad.

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"Therefore, it could be argued that God wasn't telling them to own slaves, he was telling them the proper way to deal with one of the day's acceptable practices."

Oh cmon.

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yeah, I was playing devil's advocate (Ironic...) and that was absolutely the best I could come up with.

Im glad I can make more concrete statements about atheism.

[txag007]

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So to conclude, you do not believe these verses on the page opposite the 10 commandments are applicable today.


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How did you get from here...

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Therefore, you must not believe that those verses are the divine omnipotent word of God?

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...to here?

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Given the certainty that those verses do not support your belief, this must cast into doubt the validity of the whole book?

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In order to discredit Christianity, one must first understand it. You've shown from your comments in this post that you lack some very basic Bible knowledge. Please don't take this the wrong way because I don't mean it as an insult. I'll elaborate tomorrow.

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So to conclude, you do not believe these verses on the page opposite the 10 commandments are applicable today.


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How did you get from here...

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Therefore, you must not believe that those verses are the divine omnipotent word of God?

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...to here?

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Because a divine word of an omnipotent God would not be influenced by human culture at the time. He's just 'too omnipotent' /images/graemlins/smirk.gif to take what we think into account. His ethical views cannot have changed, because that would mean they were once wrong, and I don't think your God is allowed to be wrong.

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Given the certainty that those verses do not support your belief, this must cast into doubt the validity of the whole book?

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Because we have shown that the content of the Bible is not the word of God.

[txag007]

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Because a divine word of an omnipotent God would not be influenced by human culture at the time. He's just 'too omnipotent' to take what we think into account. His ethical views cannot have changed, because that would mean they were once wrong, and I don't think your God is allowed to be wrong.

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The reason the laws to the Israelites are not applicable today is because they were instructions to a specific group at a specific time. This is what I meant by it being a cultural thing, not that God was influenced by human culture. Quite the opposite. We're not bound by those instructions now because a)we're not Israelites and b)we're not wandering through the desert.

What you need to understand about the Bible is that it is NOT as simple as you seem to want to make it. The Bible is NOT a "1, 2, 3 step" book of morality. It is NOT a "God's Little Instruction Book". It's complicated, and that's why there are entire degrees devoted to studying it.

To put it simply, the Old Testament teaches us about God and why the sacrifice of Jesus was necessary. The New Testament fulfills the prophesies of the Old Testament.

The bottom line is that you haven't come close to proving what you think you have.

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To put it simply, the Old Testament teaches us about God and why the sacrifice of Jesus was necessary. The New Testament fulfills the prophesies of the Old Testament.

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What will the next testament address, if it doesn't already exist? I am sure some people make that claim, the way the xians did.

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To put it simply, the Old Testament teaches us about God and why the sacrifice of Jesus was necessary. The New Testament fulfills the prophesies of the Old Testament.

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What will the next testament address, if it doesn't already exist? I am sure some people make that claim, the way the xians did.

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Mormons.