call or raise this river?

[cfjr2]

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (10.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero ?

Final Pot: 12.25 BB.

it is possible BB has JQ but more likely Ax Kx - or two large spades. Does anyone raise this after being called down all the way?

This is a pretty easy raise IMO. QJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif or J10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif are pretty unlikely to have been raised from the BB. AA, or AK or something else much more likely.

Raise this baby.

[bwana devil]

raise. he most likely hit his big cards.

and fold preflop.

Probably not:

1.) higher straight on board now, as well as the flush. BB was drawing to something. I think he would've raised the turn with a big K.

2.) there's still CO, who played it about the same way. I don't think we can be certain enough that neither hit their draw to raise here. If you do, are you folding to a 3bet? A raise may fold CO, though calling may not, so I don't know if it's any more profitable, and you risk a 3bet from the guy on your left (who bet into you on the river) or right (who's been riding along on this board).

[jaxUp]

this is a definite raise. You see 2 pair here almost every time. If the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif wasn't on board, then a call would be more correct as his play could be more in line with AT /images/graemlins/spade.gif or KT /images/graemlins/spade.gif (but the K is also on board. Actually though, CO is somewhat troubling and I am curious to see some math here. Somebody give it to me.

[milesdyson]

should be a relatively easy value raise. the ace makes no larger straights, and both the preflop raiser and the flop coldcaller are unlikely to have two spades. guarantee yourself another big bet, because the flop coldcaller might not overcall here anyway, but the preflop raiser most likely hit that ace.

[cfjr2]

I would normally fold this PF from UTG but this table supports this (this is about as low as I'd go though and only suited)

I am more worried about the river "leak" - is this another bet situation?
Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB.

I was worried I was being slowplayed.

I have taken a lot of bad beats on the turn / river by bigger sets, str8s, flushes and think I am mixing up the guidline of don't bet you'll only be called or raised by better hands (?)

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is CO with 4, 4.
5 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

only call preflop.

bet the river.


i think youre over valuing your hand preflop. after the flop these two hands you played fairly well.

I think he c/r the flop with two pair (8s and 9s) much more likely than with the bottom end of an OESD. After 3betting the flop and betting the turn, I don't think he could be too worried about losing you if he's holding a higher set, he'd bet/raise the turn.

Bet the river.

[hemstock]

Are you all folding if BB 3 bets?

[cfjr2]

I raised since it was such late position I wanted to fold out as many as possible and present hi pair - is this wrong?

if we're raised on the river? yeah, unless we have some reason to think he's a lunatic.

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
raise. he most likely hit his big cards.

and fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Duerig]

I would probably call the flop check raise and then raise his turn bet. I would definitely bet the river.

PF: If I thought no one would 3bet it behind my second call then I'd call it

Flop: I don't think you need to raise the flop if it means the others are going to slow down on the big bet streets. Your hand is strong and is very likely to be the best on the end. I'd check with plans of raising on the turn.

River: I'd raise the river. I think that is a weird way to play a flush is thats what the BB has. Anything else and you win. Raise.

1) seems very unlikely. I'm not giving credit for a higher straight. Its a possibility and they deserve my money if they took such a random route of betting and drawing to runner runner to make the big straight.

JQ would seem like the only draw that makes any sense but I think it would come alive on the turn

2) I think the raise will be for value. I think the others are showing pairs or two pairs

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is CO with 4, 4.
5 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

only call preflop.

bet the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why should The hero only call preflop, CO with 44? IMO it's a pretty easy raise from CO with pocket 44 on a normal table If you start the action... you have position and likely the best hand, You can win this if everyone folds... Or if people call and a lot of overacrds come on the flop and there is action it's an easy fold...

[cfjr2]

thanks - I thought it was just me /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[jaxUp]

I also approve pf. I thought it was standard.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
Why should The hero only call preflop, CO with 44? IMO it's a pretty easy raise from CO with pocket 44 on a normal table If you start the action... you have position and likely the best hand, You can win this if everyone folds... Or if people call and a lot of overacrds come on the flop and there is action it's an easy fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, im asleep at the wheel tonight. nevermind my earlier comment. raise away.

[Sir Bruce]

grunching...
I'd raise the river. You'll lose to the flush occasionally, but much more often BB has made a set, Aces up or just paired his A. I'm not too worried about missing CO's overcall, partly because I think it's likely he'll either raise or fold if I call, and partly because BB may reraise with a worse hand. I think I'd fold to a CO re-raise, though.

BB has AT. Raise it up! The question is: what if we get 3-bet. Hmmm..crying call.

[ajm36]

Call--you are beat. Your opponent sees the queen too and is not afraid to bet it. At the very least he has a bigger straight.