Re-evaluate pot odds?

[Zog]

This is a simple question that I thought I knew the answer to, but now I'm not so sure.

In Hold'em I understand that a flopped four flush is correct to call if the pot is offering you about 2 to 1 because even though you only have 9 outs, you have two cards to come.

If the turn card doesn't make your flush, do you continue thinking about the odds as being 2:1 against or do you now re-evaluate your odds to about 4:1 because now there is only one card to come? The latter is how I've been playing.

Thanks.

[Dynasty]

If you flop a flush draw, you will always have the odds to call one bet on the flop and one bet on the turn (if somebody bet the flop). And, that's simply to make your flush. If you could win the pot by also making a pair, you're in much better shape.

Don't fold flush draws for one bet.

[Zog]

I should have been more specific. The problem occurs when the turn has been raised. If there are only three people in the hand and there were no preflop raises, the raise makes the pot odds 3:1 I think. At this point the odds are about 4:1 against catching the flush on the river.

The basic question is... if you make a decision to call the flop based on two cards to come, do you have to call both cards? Or is it correct to abandon the hand if the pot odds have changed on the turn?

[Dynasty]

You definitely fold in very small pots for two bets on the turn.

[Josh W]

Dynasty's advice is dead on. But the other thing to remember is that if, say, 2 or 3 people see the flop, and there is NO FLOP BET, it is often correct to fold for ONE bet on the flop (getting 2.5:1 or so).

Josh

[Cyrus]

Allow me to compliment Dynasty's response a little, as far as I may.

"Is it correct to abandon the hand if the pot odds have changed on the turn?"

The money that's already in the pot are no longer yours or anyone else's who put his money is. It's money that belongs to no one and contested by all. You have to base your calculations on the basis of the money you are asked to put in now against the money (the pot) that you stand to win if the action wouldn't go any further.

The next thing to consider would be the odds you are effectively taking by betting now, measured against the pot that will be formed by the anticipated action in the next round(s).

"If you make a decision to call the flop based on two cards to come, do you have to call both cards?"

See above.

Every decision is based on what is in front of you, with the possible consideration (albeit one full of dangerour traps) of future action, aka implied odds. With two cards to come, you have to calculate the chance that you may need to make one more bet (or more) before the river. You know the odds against hitting with 2 cards to come; if you're getting effective pot odds that match them and then some, you should go ahead.

Example: The flop has been dealt without you hitting. There is an average bet that gives you good odds, arithmetically for the last card. If this is a NL game, however, and there's a real possibility that you will be asked to call a huge bet or go all-in before the river, then you have to consider only your odds of hitting at the next card, ie the turn, otherwise your opponent will probably make you have the worst of it for drawing out.

[bernie]

along with dyno, here's another thing to think about...

betting out with your draw if in an EP, or raising it if you in LP with a caller or 2 between you and the original bettor. this takes care of your pot odds decision on the turn since the pot will likely be big enough at that point. even if your the only 1 who bets the flop and your in LP, you may still get a free card.
though if in EP, you dont want the player on youre left to raise. unless you have the A high nut draw, (or a good overcard to the board that may be good if it hits. since the raise likely has top pair) since then you can still hit an A and win and his raise may knock out a better kicked A.

the free card play has 2 uses. along with more, but these 2 will do. 1) it can gain you a free card on the turn 2) it helps your odds to call a turn bet if someone bets the turn

b

[DiamondDave]

Don't just think of the current size of the pot. Think also of how much action you'll get if you complete your hand and how likely it is that your hand will be best if you complete it.

[DaBartman]

It is simply the odds the pot is laying you for that single call. The odds of making a flush are just over 4:1 on the next card, is the pot laying you that? Ignoring your position,pair on board, implied odds & reverse implied odds, the answer is, if so, call otherwise muck. The same reasoning applies to the turn.