Well I thought I was doing pretty well.....Crazy hand.

[Tyler Durden]

Crazy hand. And no, I didn't call the river for another player at the table. Hopefully I'm through that phase.

Online 3-6 game.

I'm in EMP with 77. UTG and UTG+1 limp, I limp also. MP1 raises, MP2 coldcalls, and the cutoff coldcalls also. Blinds fold, limpers call.

6 players see the flop for 12 small bets.

Flop is 8-4-7 rainbow.

Czeched to me, I bet, the preflop raiser calls, the other MP folds, the cutoff raises, UTG and UTG+1 coldcall, I make it 3 bets, the PFR calls, the cutoff caps it and they all call.

Turn is 9, putting a flush draw there.
Czeched to me, I bet, the PFR folds, the rest call.

River is a Queen, the flush doesn't get there.
Czeched to me, I bet and get two callers. The first guy who called is the guy who capped the flop.

Comments? thanks.

[bernie]

looks good to me.

i like the bet on the turn too. with everyone calling, id say your hand is good at this point

b

[Joe Tall]

Nice table! Hopefully the Flop-capper turned over 87s or 44 and you took it down. I like the turn bet and the calls would make me feel confident that you had the best hand.

[Tyler Durden]

The guy who overcalled the river had QQ for the rivered set. Bummer.

[Homer]

You played it fine.

Were you playing on Party last night? Crazy games, no? At one point I counted 11 3/6 games with average pots over fidy bucks.

-- Homer

[Zag]

Sorry about the bad luck on the river.

I do have one very mild disagreement with your play: On the flop, I think a check-raise is the primary play. On your immediate left is the preflop raiser, so he is very likely to bet if checked to. You'd really like to get everyone to call one bet first, then pop them again.

Even if the preflop raiser checks, after him are two who called two bets cold preflop, so there is almost no chance of it being checked out.

As it turned out, this could possibly have ended up with less money in the pot on the flop, but I still think it the better play. (However, not by much either way.)

[Tyler Durden]

I don't think I'd like to checkraise the flop. The pot is already big and I want to win it ASAP. I don't want to tie players further into this pot, which is what a checkraise would do. Also, on the turn, a straight card could fall which could be disastrous. I want to reduce the # of players that see the turn rather than giving them extra incentive to call another bet. My plan was to bet the flop and hope that the PFR raised, driving out those behind him.

How the winner stayed in with just QQ is something I won't likely understand.

[John Biggs]

My first thought when I read your post was that the flop capper had either a set of eights or an overpair; that an overpair was more likely given his meekness on the turn; and that he was hoping you were on a busted draw or maybe had something like A8s, thereby justifying his river call. His play was loose but not absolutely insane.

[Zag]

I see your point, but I still disagree (again, only mildly). With a board of 8 4 7, any straight draw is a gutshot. You don't really mind them drawing at you, as long as they are paying the maximum to do so. If there is more than one person drawing at the gutshot, either they are drawing to split, so they still only have 4 outs, or they are holding each others' outs, and then there are only 6 danger cards for you.

Furthermore, even if a straight gets there, you've got a lot of outs to fill up. Another great possibility is that your check-raise on the flop ties them to the pot, and then the board pairs on the turn. They start to feel that the pot is so big they should keep drawing, and they are drawing totally dead.

If the board offered a likely open-end straight draw, AND if you had a feeling that the preflop raiser would raise after you, then I would agree that betting out is the right answer, since the double bet might drive them out. But with only a gutshot available, I still think that this is a good place for a check-raise.

Oh yeah, I also have a policy to check-raise whenever it makes sense and is pretty sure not to check around. If your opponents are aware at all, it gets you more free cards on your bad hands. It makes people more likely to check behind you.

[J.R.]

With a board of 8 4 7, any straight draw is a gutshot.

I think you have misread the board. I agree with most of what you wrote but think you mis-diagnosed the situation.

[Tyler Durden]

[John Biggs]

Didn't follow "the guy who overcalled the river."

[Inthacup]

With a board of 8 4 7, any straight draw is a gutshot.

What about 9 10 or 6 9?


If the board offered a likely open-end straight draw

I would say that 9 10 is a *likely* holding

[Inthacup]

pot is already big and I want to win it ASAP. I don't want to tie players further into this pot, which is what a checkraise would do. Also, on the turn, a straight card could fall which could be disastrous.

This is weak thinking. Not only do you have an incredibly strong hand, which will most likely win the pot without any help, you'll have 10 outs on the turn if you haven't already filled up yet. You should be thinking about charging draws and getting as much money in the pot while you're ahead. It's okay to build a huge pot and then get drawn out on. It's going to happen. It's also ok to build a huge pot and take it down with a huge hand, which you have.

A disasterous strait card is when you have AA and the board reads

8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 10 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

and there's been a lot of action. Having a strait card come on the turn is a small problem, not a disaster. At WORST you're going to be behind with 10 outs and good implied odds.

[Tyler Durden]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
This is weak thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate checkraising the flop?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You should be thinking about charging draws and getting as much money in the pot while you're ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]


Isn't that what I did? I just went about it in a different manner.

[J.R.]

By betting into the pre-flop raiser, you charge the draws but do not build as big a pot as possible because you are inducing your opponents to fold by confronting them with calling two bets .

By check-raising, you charge the draws and build a big pot by tying everyone into the pot for one more bet.

[Inthacup]

I want to reduce the # of players that see the turn rather than giving them extra incentive to call another bet. My plan was to bet the flop and hope that the PFR raised, driving out those behind him.

I do advocate check-raising the flop if you think that a raise from the PFR is going to drive out the players behind him. Since 6 players saw the flop, hoping that a raise from PFR will drive people out doesn't make any sense. Having 5 opponents in for 2 bets is obviously better than having 1 opponent in for 3 bets. IF you think that everyone will cold-call a raise from PFR thus allowing you to 3-bet, then I think you played the flop beautifully. But that wasn't your intention, and for that I think you played the flop poorly.

It's great that you got to 3-bet the flop, but it's not great that you were hoping to 3-bet 1 opponent.

[bernie]

you made alot off him on the turn and the flop. you cant want him to fold chasing 2 outs can you?

sometimes a suckout happens. QQ usually beats 77. this is one way it happens. but you still made quite a bit on the hand even though you lost.

b