$22 - 99 is an overpair in a raised pot [Archive]

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pergesu

10-31-2005, 02:57 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t705)
Button (t775)
SB (t770)
BB (t935)
UTG (t1265)
UTG+1 (t920)
UTG+2 (t505)
MP1 (t315)
Hero (t775)
MP3 (t1035)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero calls t15, MP3 raises to t60, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls t45, Hero calls t45.

Flop: (t202.50) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets t140, UTG+2 folds, Hero ??

WA/WB here I think..so what do I do?

Simplistic

10-31-2005, 02:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t705)
Button (t775)
SB (t770)
BB (t935)
UTG (t1265)
UTG+1 (t920)
UTG+2 (t505)
MP1 (t315)
Hero (t775)
MP3 (t1035)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero calls t15, MP3 raises to t60, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls t45, Hero calls t45.

Flop: (t202.50) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets t140, UTG+2 folds, Hero ??

WA/WB here I think..so what do I do?

[/ QUOTE ]raise

RobGW

10-31-2005, 03:07 PM

I'd bet right into him on the flop and see how he reacts. That way I get more info and it makes my decision easier. By 2 people just calling pf and then checking, it invites him to continuation bluff with AK or something like that so now you have no idea of where you are. And of course its possible he has a higher pair. So I'd fold here the way you played it.

pergesu

10-31-2005, 03:13 PM

Betting into him lets him raise me with any two cards, exposing myself to getting outplayed hardcore. Checking allows me to raise and take the pot right there, which I'd prefer to do, and he may opt to call me with AK which is pretty good for me.

10-31-2005, 03:20 PM

What makes you think he's raising you with any two(read:whiffed overs or 55-77)? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

pergesu

10-31-2005, 03:25 PM

I didn't say he is, I said he can. I think that betting here is highly exploitable.

zambonidrivr

10-31-2005, 03:27 PM

how did he get to 1300? do you recall?
you're at level 1, this is an easy fold.

RobGW

10-31-2005, 03:32 PM

It sounds like you are putting him on 2 overs. In that case of course a raise is better. If he folds fine, if he calls thats good too. However, there is a possibility that he has you beat. He raised PF and bet pretty big on that flop. So are you willing to gamble this tourney on 99? Even if he calls a checkraise with AK you still might get outdrawn. I think the probability that you are beat or will get outdrawn outways the probability that you will win. Of course you were there so you may have a read or something like that.

On a side note, I generally don't worry about someone at the $22 outplaying me. If he is crazy enough to reraise me with air, then I'll get him eventually. Most of the time someone with 2 overs will just call the bet.

pergesu

10-31-2005, 03:34 PM

I don't put him on two overs. The range, in my mind, is obviously two overs or an overpair. So I said it's WA/WB. Not sure what to do.

schwza

10-31-2005, 03:40 PM

i'm kind of a coward, but i'd just check-fold. you'd have no problem check-folding a T64 board, right? well it's not very likely villain has AT, so it's basically the same.

if you wanted to get cute, you could check/call the flop and check/fold the turn. but if villain is going to fire two barrels with AK, then that line sucks.

i don't like a c/r because you win the pot if you're ahead but lose a lot more when you're behind.

Simplistic

10-31-2005, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say he is, I said he can. I think that betting here is highly exploitable.

[/ QUOTE ]i don't see you getting raised with any 2 if you take aggression on the flop.

if you bet into him and he raises, muck and you move on.

if you check-raise him, what do you if he smooth calls/re-raises you. keep in mind you're out of position.

either or, you have to show some kind of aggression on this flop. if the only reason you're calling his raise is for set value, then fold. but this is just about the ideal flop for 9s.

tigerite

10-31-2005, 03:44 PM

This is nasty. He could be bluffing two overcards as a continuation bet especially as he has position. There's nothing on this flop he should be scared of, rainbow 843 is surely as safe as you can get. Why would he bet a big overpair here? I don't know. I can see arguments for folding and raising, to be honest. It's always a situation I find tough. Calling I think is pretty much out of the question, though.

kevkev60614

10-31-2005, 06:31 PM

I think you have to fold. The only reason you played a middle pair OOP to begin with was for set value, right? I don't think that three unders flopping changes that. If you raise or call here, I think you end up risking more chips than you'd like.

flyingmoose

10-31-2005, 06:47 PM

Run and find some people who don't care and yell at them "This is the hand I was supposed to go broke on, but I can dodge bullets baby!!"

I'd need a pretty good read to get my chips in the middle with a pair of nines in level one of a 22. I don't think your hand is strong enough against MP3's range -- and I don't think the pot is big enough to be worth defending with your tournament life.

mlagoo

10-31-2005, 06:54 PM

I would have led out here (if I called PF, which I think I would have) and folded to a raise.

Having checked, I'm not CR-ing, because it has to be for my whole stack, and 99 is not that strong here, and he isn't folding TT ever. If I come along at all, however, I'm calling with this line in mind: on a non A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and calling a push. On an A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and folding to a push.

I really don't like C/Ring this flop with that bet size though, because I'm not into playing for my whole stack against a PF raiser with 99.

tjh

10-31-2005, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have led out here (if I called PF, which I think I would have) and folded to a raise.

Having checked, I'm not CR-ing, because it has to be for my whole stack, and 99 is not that strong here, and he isn't folding TT ever. If I come along at all, however, I'm calling with this line in mind: on a non A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and calling a push. On an A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and folding to a push.

I really don't like C/Ring this flop with that bet size though, because I'm not into playing for my whole stack against a PF raiser with 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quality response here !! Nice work. ...

By the way.. I agree...

I would have bet out on the flop but this advice is good given the actions that you have taken.

--
tjh

pineapple888

10-31-2005, 07:25 PM

I'm late to this discussion, but I bet into villain on the flop, specifically because I'm totally guessing on a CB otherwise.

Folding to a raise, obviously.

With your line, either raising (he's on two overs, blast him out now), calling (WAWB, try to show it down), or folding (screw it, he raised preflop) are reasonable. Darned if I know how to decide.

DDH

10-31-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have led out here (if I called PF, which I think I would have) and folded to a raise.

Having checked, I'm not CR-ing, because it has to be for my whole stack, and 99 is not that strong here, and he isn't folding TT ever. If I come along at all, however, I'm calling with this line in mind: on a non A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and calling a push. On an A-K turn, I'm betting out for a little over half pot and folding to a push.

I really don't like C/Ring this flop with that bet size though, because I'm not into playing for my whole stack against a PF raiser with 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly I agree with that. I would have bet out ont he flop here, see how he reacts to the bet, get a feel for where I am. There are times when I will pull a check raise here, but they're based on having a read that just about eliminates overpairs from a hand range. If I read him as having AK, or big cards and that he will make a continuation bet with them, I'll pull the check raise. But, if you have a hand range that could include overpairs, then I would bet into him, probably fold to a push.

11-02-2005, 12:57 AM

WA/WB? You're kidding, right? You're in a multiway pot with an overpair of nines. Do yourself a favor and Google "overcards." Or maybe bet the flop, which is almost certainly better than what you did.

someday

11-02-2005, 02:20 AM

im always baffled by the amount of thought some people put into hands like this so early in the game.

at level 1 I couldnt fold it fast enough.

ChrisV

11-02-2005, 02:43 AM

Your two possible lines are bet out and check/fold.

Versus good players, these bet out lines kinda suck because it's so obvious that you're probing. I've raised allin with bare AK any number of times versus betouts like that, and sometimes just call with overpairs.

However here i think it could work - not just because you're in a $22, but because of the presence of the third guy in the pot, which will prevent him putting a move on you.

Having checked, though, I'd fold to the bet because a checkraise puts me in too deep.