taking someones SATs for them, for a fee

[Voltron87]

Someone just asked if I would be interested in taking the SATs for a friend of theirs, for a fee. The person who is getting me in touch is a person I trust, I trust them personally and they have good judgement. The person who is interested in paying me has $$$ and is legit. I am very qualified to do this, I would definitely satisfy the score they need and would treat it seriously and prepare. I am also qualified because I am a smart guy and have common sense, etc, and I have become a gambler at heart. So I have the score ability and the right mindset to do this.

questions for you:

1. How much would you charge for this? Assume the person paying is wealthy.

2. Any other advice? I can't think of any specific questions.





The funny part about this is that when I took my SATs, I did not give a [censored]. not at all. no preparation, i just mailed it in. I did well. But if I did this I would take it seriously, prepare, and even be somewhat nervous. thats just interesting to me.

[TheMetetron]

Don't they check ID? I assume a fake...

Also, I'd charge $1,000 if you can give them 1400+ score. It may be worth more, depending how dumb they are.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Any other advice? I can't think of any specific questions.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should ask a lawyer about what laws you would be breaking and how severe the punishment could be?

[Non_Comformist]

I never took my SAT's but I'm assuming whoever conducts the test actively works to prevent this type of thing.

I would charge $3 a point once you've met some minimum required score.

[Tron]

Man, this is really, really, horribly unethical.

[tom441lbk]

I'd say charge a big fee, then even bigger based on the score that you get, and how good it is, maybe a clause having something to do with "if you get caught"

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, this is really, really, horribly unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, it is.

I got offers to do this and to write college essays for people but I turned both down.

[Pat Southern]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say charge a big fee, then even bigger based on the score that you get, and how good it is, maybe a clause having something to do with "if you get caught"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure any contract that deals with illegal activity isn't valid.

[tom441lbk]

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Man, this is really, really, horribly unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, it is.

I got offers to do this and to write college essays for people but I turned both down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote some two-page essays for some kids in 7th, or maybe 8th, grade Social Studies, and those fuckers never paid me. I never did that again. So luckily I got out of the academic dishonesty game early and without doing great harm.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, this is really, really, horribly unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you ever think that making/breaking a teenagers life over 1 stupid test is unethical?

[istewart]

Don't do it. That's why we ship people over en masse from Bombay and Japan.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2. Any other advice? I can't think of any specific questions.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should ask a lawyer about what laws you would be breaking and how severe the punishment could be?

[/ QUOTE ]

if im posting this, it should be apparent that i have grappled with the legal and ethical consequences in my mind and am ok with it. for various reasons i can't list, lets say the legal thing is relatively low risk.

and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from. this is a question i do actually grapple with, and a lot of the time i dont feel so great about it. but the SAT thing i have no real problem with.

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Man, this is really, really, horribly unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you ever think that making/breaking a teenagers life over 1 stupid test is unethical?

[/ QUOTE ]

At least they are up-front about it.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't do it. That's why we ship people over en masse from Bombay and Japan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proud To Be An American

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/30531/2/Proud_Flyer.jpg

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not the place for a discussion about poker, but you dont see what im getting at?

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, please explain the parallel.

EDIT:

[ QUOTE ]
this is not the place for a discussion about poker, but you dont see what im getting at

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously not.

[Voltron87]

i worded it badly.

back on topic- i am thinking 3$ per point.

[istewart]

Is there a clause where you get $0 if you score < x?

[crosse91]

seems like an easy 4 grand
and i'd do it in a heartbeat

[RiverFenix]

Does the SAT scores still increase by 10 points at a time? $30/10 seems a little low for a test that is huge in determining college choices.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a clause where you get $0 if you score < x?

[/ QUOTE ]

dont worry about this. and i would not let it be structured this way anyway. time is a factor here and all things considered i am in an excellent bargaining position.

[KingDan]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't they check ID? I assume a fake...

Also, I'd charge $1,000 if you can give them 1400+ score. It may be worth more, depending how dumb they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way more. People spend over a grand on SAT review classes. IIRC a private tutor from Princeton Review gets 150 an hour
By the way SATs are no longer out of 1600 but of 2400. They have a writing section now.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
seems like an easy > $6k
and i'd do it in a heartbeat

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[NLSoldier]

I think you guys are overestimating how much he will be paid. Im not saying its not worth in upwards of 5k. But what HS senior has 5k to spend on this without help of parents and without parents finding out.

[istewart]

Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are overestimating how much he will be paid. Im not saying its not worth in upwards of 5k. But what HS senior has 5k to spend on this without help of parents and without parents finding out.

[/ QUOTE ]

said customer is legit. i could say something that would make everyone realize this but i'll pass, for obvious reasons.

does anyone know if each school gets a copy of the essay portion? the handwriting is the only thing that worries me from a getting caught standpoint.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must have be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you study and tutor enough for the test you can do very well. surprisingly well. i am not worried about that element. this has reached caper status.

[istewart]

Dude, the test has been out for one [censored] year. How the hell would we know? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]

said customer is legit. i could say something that would make everyone realize this but i'll pass, for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they are a poker player or drug dealer, or the parents are in on it?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must have be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you study and tutor enough for the test you can do very well. surprisingly well. i am not worried about that element. this has reached caper status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly, but, this girl obviously isn't studying or tutoring and yet she's gonna get an awesome score. So her parents won't think anything of it?

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must have be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you study and tutor enough for the test you can do very well. surprisingly well. i am not worried about that element. this has reached caper status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly, but, this girl obviously isn't studying or tutoring and yet she's gonna get an awesome score. So her parents won't think anything of it?

[/ QUOTE ]
wait hes gonna take it for a girl? taht doesnt seem possible, as you definately have to show ID.

[istewart]

Another incorrect assumption... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must have be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you study and tutor enough for the test you can do very well. surprisingly well. i am not worried about that element. this has reached caper status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly, but, this girl obviously isn't studying or tutoring and yet she's gonna get an awesome score. So her parents won't think anything of it?

[/ QUOTE ]
wait hes gonna take it for a girl? taht doesnt seem possible, as you definately have to show ID.

[/ QUOTE ]

where does voltron say its for a girl?

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Another incorrect assumption... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, ok.

[Voltron87]

1. its not for a girl. i would have figured out the fatal flaw much earlier in that case.

2. again, i am not worried about the kid suddenly showing up with a great score. this is not an issue, kids who are tutored for a year intensively will often ace the test. i have zero worry about the parents saying "i thought my kid was retarded, and now he aced the test?"

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
1. its not for a girl. i would have figured out the fatal flaw much earlier in that case.

2. again, i am not worried about the kid suddenly showing up with a great score. this is not an issue, kids who are tutored for a year intensively will often ace the test. i have zero worry about the parents saying "i thought my kid was retarded, and now he aced the test?"

[/ QUOTE ]

but what about the parents saying, "i thought my kid had 5k in his bank acct, where did it go?"

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. its not for a girl. i would have figured out the fatal flaw much earlier in that case.

2. again, i am not worried about the kid suddenly showing up with a great score. this is not an issue, kids who are tutored for a year intensively will often ace the test. i have zero worry about the parents saying "i thought my kid was retarded, and now he aced the test?"

[/ QUOTE ]

but what about the parents saying, "i thought my kid had 5k in his bank acct, where did it go?"

[/ QUOTE ]

not an issue. extenuating circumstances.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

how are these even related again? oh yeah they're not

regardless, this is extremely retarded - I hope the girl somehow dies of syphilis

I hate cheaters

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

how are these even related again? oh yeah they're not

regardless, this is extremely retarded - I hope the girl somehow dies of syphilis

I hate cheaters

[/ QUOTE ]

lets get back to the topics of:

1. how much should i be compensated

2. what are the risks for me, ie chance of me getting caught. is there a handwritten part would be sent to each college? even so there is no way to trace it to me, that is what im thinking.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. its not for a girl. i would have figured out the fatal flaw much earlier in that case.

2. again, i am not worried about the kid suddenly showing up with a great score. this is not an issue, kids who are tutored for a year intensively will often ace the test. i have zero worry about the parents saying "i thought my kid was retarded, and now he aced the test?"

[/ QUOTE ]

but what about the parents saying, "i thought my kid had 5k in his bank acct, where did it go?"

[/ QUOTE ]

not an issue. extenuating circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

your PM inbox is full dammit. I want to know these special circumstances. i wont tell anyone, its drving me nuts /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

said customer is legit. i could say something that would make everyone realize this but i'll pass, for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they are a poker player or drug dealer, or the parents are in on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a Walton.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

said customer is legit. i could say something that would make everyone realize this but i'll pass, for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they are a poker player or drug dealer, or the parents are in on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a Walton.

[/ QUOTE ]

my dad taught bill walton when he was at UCLA. but not the walton youre thinking of.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

how are these even related again? oh yeah they're not

regardless, this is extremely retarded - I hope the girl somehow dies of syphilis

I hate cheaters

[/ QUOTE ]

lets get back to the topics of:

1. how much should i be compensated

2. what are the risks for me, ie chance of me getting caught. is there a handwritten part would be sent to each college? even so there is no way to trace it to me, that is what im thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is little to no risk for you, but definately a lot of risk for the other guy. he is the one thats gonna get [censored] if you get caught. its not like they will have police there, so if you get caught you can just run. but they have his name, so he will face the consequences.

pay depends on how smart you are and how dumb he is. I think you should get about $1000 per 50 pt increase between his projected score and your actual score. So if he would get a 1300 and you get him a 1600, you get 6k.

[ddss6_99]

The high school does not get any hand written portions of your test, they only get your scores, if that. And how were you planning on the whole having to show photo id thing? Because even if it was a fake, i'd assume the fake would be from a different state therefor making it hard to explain why Joe So and so from 123 fake street California is showing up with an Arizona ID. But if you can get around it, hell yeah I'd do it.

[Voltron87]

while i think your idea of 1K/50 pts is a good idea and probably the most equitable, i think it would be easier to negotiate this as a flat fee. complexity is bad, especially since i am talking with someone who is afraid of taking his own SATs.

the more i think about it, the more it looks like i am in the clear and it cant be pinned to me.

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

said customer is legit. i could say something that would make everyone realize this but i'll pass, for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they are a poker player or drug dealer, or the parents are in on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a Walton.

[/ QUOTE ]

my dad taught bill walton when he was at UCLA. but not the walton youre thinking of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was talking about this one (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/20/features/peepfri.php). But that's pretty cool, too! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
while i think your idea of 1K/50 pts is a good idea and probably the most equitable, i think it would be easier to negotiate this as a flat fee. complexity is bad, especially since i am talking with someone who is afraid of taking his own SATs.

the more i think about it, the more it looks like i am in the clear and it cant be pinned to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I dont think there is any way it can be pineed on you unless you do something really stupid. the SATs are run by SAT people who come in and administer the test. it is unlikely anyone is gonna recognize you are be able to somehow stop you from escaping if caught. unless they do something like hand you the test and pretend everything is fine and then call the cops while you are taking it. But I dont even think there is anything the cops could do, maybe get you for impersonation or whatever since you used a fake ID?

[chisness]

is it out of the question that his school could be notified if caught? there's not a chance i take this risk for my whole life where i can make a whole bunch of 5ks or whatever they are with a college degree and good name.

[captZEEbo1]

Why would anyone want someone else to take an SAT for them? If they can get a certain score to get into specific college, they are definitely not ready to BE in that specific college and will just fail out anyways.

[chisness]

they're also not dumb about this kind of thing. if they think something's suspicious they can ask for retakes and compare the scores or maybe even investigate the handwriting.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone want someone else to take an SAT for them? If they can get a certain score to get into specific college, they are definitely not ready to BE in that specific college and will just fail out anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think this is as true as it should be.

[InchoateHand]

Not remotely true.

The SAT is almost meaningless.

If you were caught, you are not talking big criminal offense here---you are talking about ETS invalidating his scores. And ETS are [censored] anyway.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while i think your idea of 1K/50 pts is a good idea and probably the most equitable, i think it would be easier to negotiate this as a flat fee. complexity is bad, especially since i am talking with someone who is afraid of taking his own SATs.

the more i think about it, the more it looks like i am in the clear and it cant be pinned to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I dont think there is any way it can be pineed on you unless you do something really stupid. the SATs are run by SAT people who come in and administer the test. it is unlikely anyone is gonna recognize you are be able to somehow stop you from escaping if caught. unless they do something like hand you the test and pretend everything is fine and then call the cops while you are taking it. But I dont even think there is anything the cops could do, maybe get you for impersonation or whatever since you used a fake ID?

[/ QUOTE ]


Forgery too i would imagine.

[Sightless]

Just an advice take the SAT in a different school than your friend goes too...

[Smarty]

While I don't condone this behavior, one thing to consider is if the person has previously taken the SAT. If they notice an extreme score jump (maybe like > 300 points) over a short period of time, they do some investigation such as checking out the seating chart of the person, etc...
Also, I think the new writing portion contains an essay so handwriting will be a factor here.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while i think your idea of 1K/50 pts is a good idea and probably the most equitable, i think it would be easier to negotiate this as a flat fee. complexity is bad, especially since i am talking with someone who is afraid of taking his own SATs.

the more i think about it, the more it looks like i am in the clear and it cant be pinned to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I dont think there is any way it can be pineed on you unless you do something really stupid. the SATs are run by SAT people who come in and administer the test. it is unlikely anyone is gonna recognize you are be able to somehow stop you from escaping if caught. unless they do something like hand you the test and pretend everything is fine and then call the cops while you are taking it. But I dont even think there is anything the cops could do, maybe get you for impersonation or whatever since you used a fake ID?

[/ QUOTE ]


Forgery too i would imagine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fake ID is a forged official state document.

[danzasmack]

The problem is that it's high school. Kids run their mouth and tell everybody else.

My friend and i got very high SAT scores and some kid in our grade approached each of us and offered about 10k to take the test for him. IMO it was easy to turn down, just the chance that somebody finds out about this makes the entire thing -EV.

Your main concern should be who he is going to tell and how he is going to get you the $. What are you gonna say if he doesn't pay you?

[CollinEstes]

Clearly you have to get the money up front. Depending on his situation he should just cheat on the test himself.

I was recruited to play baseball at Dartmouth but my SAT was about 50 points under where I would get in easily (with the coach's help of course). So since they took the best composite score I totally focused on math one test then took it again and totally focused on verbal, with cheating in the fact that I fliped back to previous sections. The result was a composite score 150 points over my best one time score.

[canis582]

I'd offer to do them for $5,000 saying the risk involved and your expertise makes it worth so much. He may say yes; if he says its too much, I would try to negotiate, but not go down further than 2.5K.

[kurosh]

I was going to do this for someone. It's pretty simple. Get a fake ID. Take it at another district where there is no chance of anyone recognizing you or who he should be. Collect lots of money.

[LordBP]

I certainly wouldn't suggest this. I just took the SAT <a month ago and this is some serious measures in place to prevent crap like this. Unless you can get a perfect fake, I wouldn't try it and I doubt I would anyways.
First you have to sign in and present ID. Then you go to a room and have to present ID again. Then you have to leave your ID on your table the entire test. Also you have to sign that you certify that you are the person on the test. Then there is a handwriting section that you have to write a paragraph in cursive to state that you are the one taking the test and that you haven't cheated and such. Plus the whole writing section where you get exactly what you wrote back with your scores. So it would be impossible for him to show anyone he knew his essay.
I don't know if they match these up against anything or what but it wouldn't be hard to get caught.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I kind've assumed the parents were in on it. Not sure why...

But I mean, this is quite a caper then eh? This girl must have be retarded and she's gonna get a 2350 or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you study and tutor enough for the test you can do very well. surprisingly well. i am not worried about that element. this has reached caper status.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I just thought of.. His own school would be most skeptical of his scores.. All the buzz would be.. "Hey, did you hear so and so.." But that's not really your concern though.

[Paluka]

I think this is super scummy and would not do it for any amount of money.

[Vavavoom]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is super scummy and would do it for any amount of money over £10000

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry - I've sold my soul to the devil !

i saw a study where the avg grade at ivy league schools is extremely high. once you get in is harder to fail out than other places.
maybe is because the students are initially smarter but not necessarily

[schwza]

- you will help this person get into a much better school.

- this person will probably make many 10's of thousands of dollars over the course of their lifetime because of it.

- you are going to be at some risk. i don't really know, but i would've guessed it'd be fraud.

- if you're actually going to study, it will eat up some time.

i think an 8k flat fee would be around right.

let me take a stab: the fake ID is not a worry because it's your brother?

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
i saw a study where the avg grade at ivy league schools is extremely high. once you get in is harder to fail out than other places.
maybe is because the students are initially smarter but not necessarily

[/ QUOTE ]

Grade inflation is pretty outrageous at some of the Ivys. At Cornell where I went, it isn't much of a problem.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]

2. what are the risks for me, ie chance of me getting caught. is there a handwritten part would be sent to each college? even so there is no way to trace it to me, that is what im thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a handwritten essay portion of the test, but I don't think that anybody will be doing a handwriting sample. To make it easy on yourself, simply print your essay.

[B Dids]

A- asking for advice and then responding to legit questions with a bunch of "I can't tell you" is kinda silly. If you can't share, just don't make the post.

B- This is weak sauce. If somebody doesn't have the smarts and work ethic to nut and get ready for this thing, you're not doing them any favors by helping them get into whatever school they're aiming for. (not saying SAT=smart, but a decent school will require more effort and skill than it seems this person likely has).

C- This is pretty [censored] scummy.

[Sponger15SB]

You guys are incredibly overcharging. I actually knew a guy in high school who was willing to do this. $500 + expenses for the fake ID and he already got a 1530 on his SATs

Anything over $1500 is a [censored] joke.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are incredibly overcharging. I actually knew a guy in high school who was willing to do this. $500 + expenses for the fake ID and he already got a 1530 on his SATs

Anything over $1500 is a [censored] joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have no idea what a good price for this is so your guess is better than mine, but you need to consider that Voltron has to write a [censored] essay. I know I wouldn't do that for less than $1k.

[chisness]

maybe your friend is dumb. this test is very very important and in my opinion is fairly valued at at least $10,000 for a very good score, but i would never ever consider doing this.

[Voltron87]

1. i think i would not be at risk of any serious criminal charges. the only risk to me is that i would get my college admissions revoked. the more i think about it there more i realize there is no way to tie this to me.

2. i am going to charge as much as i can get, what is this overcharging nonsense?

3. captzeeboy- youre way off about saying "if he cant do well enough on the SAT he will [censored] up in college". this is just incorrect.

4. for everyone who thinks its scummy, this is not an excuse, but waaaaay worse stuff happens in the college admissions process. plus, we would be cheating a system that is already full of BS and is totally rigged anyway. it took me about 5 seconds to get over the ethical quandry.

5. i am probably in the top 1 percentile of self earned income for college kids, so it is not like i have never seen 5 grand and am blown away by the money. most kids would say "holy crap, ive never seen 5K in my life" but due to poker that is not really messing up my judgement. its obviously still a huge chunk of change.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
4. for everyone who thinks its scummy, this is not an excuse, but waaaaay worse stuff happens in the college admissions process. plus, we would be cheating a system that is already full of BS and is totally rigged anyway. it took me about 5 seconds to get over the ethical quandry.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's not an excuse? That's good, because I don't think so either. Unfortunately, that also means you have no way to justify your dishonesty.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

If this isn't illegal I would do it for 50-70 cents a point. If it is illegal but say the punishment is like citation or possession slap on the wrist I'd do it for 1.0-1.4 a point. If it was more illegal than this I don't think I'd do it at all unless it was so high I would go directly to jail for that much. I think I could easily get low 1400's with no refreshing and low 1500 with moderate retraining.

[InchoateHand]

Wow, you aren't very smart, are you? You shouldn't be offering to take people's SATs if you are going to get low 1400s. You should be offering to kill yourself. Here, I'll give you a dime. Go have yourself a [censored] ball.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are incredibly overcharging. I actually knew a guy in high school who was willing to do this. $500 + expenses for the fake ID and he already got a 1530 on his SATs

Anything over $1500 is a [censored] joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a writing portion now. It is much more difficult.

[InchoateHand]

hahahahahahahah
hahahahahhahaha
hahahahahahahaha


I know you are joking, but still



hahahahahahahahah
hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahah

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, you aren't very smart, are you? You shouldn't be offering to take people's SATs if you are going to get low 1400s. You should be offering to kill yourself. Here, I'll give you a dime. Go have yourself a [censored] ball.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I'm assuming people who want someone else to take it are stone retarded. My rate is fairly low, (I think?). Besides this is hypothetical. Is low 1400's that bad? I don't even remember what I got on the SAT. I think I got a 32 on the ACT if that matters, I'm sure I could do better since I don't know english grammar and the only time I ever had training on it was the night before the test where I bought an ACT book and a grammar book from Waldenbooks. Besides I don't think you have to get a near perfect score to offer services since this is unethical and there is not much competition.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
1. i think i would not be at risk of any serious criminal charges. the only risk to me is that i would get my college admissions revoked. the more i think about it there more i realize there is no way to tie this to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is Zero risk to you. To make certain, simply do not carry any Identification or Credit Cards bearing your name on the test day.

[ QUOTE ]

4. for everyone who thinks its scummy, this is not an excuse, but waaaaay worse stuff happens in the college admissions process. plus, we would be cheating a system that is already full of BS and is totally rigged anyway. it took me about 5 seconds to get over the ethical quandry.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ethics and morals are a personal thing. If you and your "client" have no problem with it, then there is no problem.

[DonButtons]

In miami, paying more than $300 is getting ripped, but thats for like a 1300 on sat/30 act.

And the guy provides you any necessary fake ID of course, since its taken at high schools, you can get by really easy with home made stuff.

Again, this is 1.5 years ago, not sure how the new tests are (essays now?).

His risk is very low in my opinion.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone just asked if I would be interested in taking the SATs for a friend of theirs, for a fee. The person who is getting me in touch is a person I trust, I trust them personally and they have good judgement. The person who is interested in paying me has $$$ and is legit. I am very qualified to do this, I would definitely satisfy the score they need and would treat it seriously and prepare. I am also qualified because I am a smart guy and have common sense, etc, and I have become a gambler at heart. So I have the score ability and the right mindset to do this.

questions for you:

1. How much would you charge for this? Assume the person paying is wealthy.

2. Any other advice? I can't think of any specific questions.


[/ QUOTE ]


I did this twice.

One kid paid me $450 to take them, i got him a 1370, or 300 points higher than his original..

another kid paid me $600, i got him a 1490, or 690 points higher than his first score.

Kid #2 got caught. They automatically go back and check the hand writings (on the handwriting sample box) whenever the poitn differencee is big.

The kids i did it for went out and got me a decent fake ID from some place in the city, but a crappy one would work as easily, they dont cheeck ID's for [censored].


edit: By being caught, he just forfitted the bigger score, and they gave him a free supervised new test date.

[runner4life7]

This got me thinking to how much would I do this for. I took the ACT but I know how the SAT scores for the most part. If you can get them 1500+ thats gotta be a few thousand at least I would think and 1550+ even more and make a huge bonus for 1600. But yeah I would do ranges from like 1400 up increments of 50 and starting at like 2500 for under 1400 maybe. But I am just throwing numbers out.

I still cant decide if I would do this. I think for 5k I would take someone else's test. Is that bad?

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
This got me thinking to how much would I do this for. I took the ACT but I know how the SAT scores for the most part. If you can get them 1500+ thats gotta be a few thousand at least I would think and 1550+ even more and make a huge bonus for 1600. But yeah I would do ranges from like 1400 up increments of 50 and starting at like 2500 for under 1400 maybe. But I am just throwing numbers out.

I still cant decide if I would do this. I think for 5k I would take someone else's test. Is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

1500 is a terrible score these days.

[runner4life7]

is it? I figure for someone that needs someone to take it for them 1500 would be good, but like I said I only know ACT mostly here in wisconsin. I luckboxed a 35 so I should whore myself out here for like 2500 a shot minimum.

[Danenania]

I'd do it. I don't think it's scummy. You are performing a service that hurts no one for an agreed upon fee. It isn't your job to uphold the system's integrity.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
is it? I figure for someone that needs someone to take it for them 1500 would be good, but like I said I only know ACT mostly here in wisconsin. I luckboxed a 35 so I should whore myself out here for like 2500 a shot minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a good score when out of 1600, but SAT is now out of 2400 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
i saw a study where the avg grade at ivy league schools is extremely high. once you get in is harder to fail out than other places.
maybe is because the students are initially smarter but not necessarily

[/ QUOTE ]I would assume people that try to get into ivy league schools are generally more inclined to try to be successful in school. People that go to CC or state schools might be more likely to do it because there's nothing else to do with their life and this will eat up time until they figure stuff out.

and regarding my earlier comment, I exaggerated a little and it's unlikely that they fail out b/c college is easy.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it? I figure for someone that needs someone to take it for them 1500 would be good, but like I said I only know ACT mostly here in wisconsin. I luckboxed a 35 so I should whore myself out here for like 2500 a shot minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a good score when out of 1600, but SAT is now out of 2400 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I guess that's why people were making fun of my 1400-1500 score guesses.

[wtfsvi]

[ QUOTE ]
i would think about the people you win money from. this is a question i do actually grapple with, and a lot of the time i dont feel so great about it. but the SAT thing i have no real problem with.

[/ QUOTE ] The SAT thing is lying, winning money from people in poker is not. Lying is wrong, and people that lie are uninteresting.

I have moral qualms about poker as well, but doing someone else's SAT is something I wouldn't even consider( for any reasonable sum of money).

[gulebjorn]

Let's say they discover the cheating, but do not tie your name to it rightaway. Obviously, they know for who you cheated. How much heat can this guy withstand before he gives up your name? This is a very important factor IMO.

Another question: are you sure this guy would keep his mouth shut if everything went well? You know: he tells one guy who swears not to tell anyone, and before you know it, the whole school is talking about the guy who put up five grand to cheat on his SAT's and got away with it.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
How much heat can this guy withstand before he gives up your name? This is a very important factor IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]


They give no heat, they send a letter saying something about what they suspecct blah blah they ask tha tyou take it again in a supervised 1 on 1 room.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How much heat can this guy withstand before he gives up your name? This is a very important factor IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]


They give no heat, they send a letter saying something about what they suspecct blah blah they ask tha tyou take it again in a supervised 1 on 1 room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Didn't think they would be breaking out the branding iron, but I'd expect some kind of investigation.

[pokerjoker]

Just the fact that half of the people here would do this is very disturbing to me. Do that many poker players just throw morality out the window when money is involved?

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
Just the fact that half of the people here would do this is very disturbing to me. Do that many poker players just throw morality out the window when money is involved?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. But then again, I don't really know what a SAT is.

I also live in Belgium, where tax fraud and general abuse of the system is part of our cultural legacy.

[pokerjoker]

If you have thought about the morality of this and are OK with it, what is your rationale?

Also, how do you reconcile when someone who actually took the SAT legitly doesn't get into the college they want to go to because you took it for your friend?

[Exitonly]

I felt (i'm over it now) pretty bad about myself after i did it for some kids, but i made myself feel better beecause A) theres a good chance get caught, if theres a really significant score increase, they're going to get caught pretty much. B) If they're trtue douchebags (like the kids i took it for) they won't be around long in college anyway. spotI'm pretty sure both of the kids i took it for, will not grraduate from the schools they got into. So the legit student will have their chancee, they'll just have to transfer in. C) and finally, if the kids were legit hard-workers, and just freaked out at tests or something (i know a few people like this, that are very smart, but the anxiety of one test determining your future kills them) if i could definitely justify it to myself, that the system is unfair and they deserve a chance.

But, it's definitely a crappy thing to do, i can't say i'm ashamed of it, because i don't care really.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have thought about the morality of this and are OK with it, what is your rationale?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I don't really know what a SAT is or what it's purpose is. But what's the problem with cheating a test like that? It's not like you cheat on an exam to become pilot, and will be putting people at risk because you are flying them around without proper skills.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, how do you reconcile when someone who actually took the SAT legitly doesn't get into the college they want to go to because you took it for your friend?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand... probably because I don't know how these things work exactly. If there could be consequences for other people, this is a different matter.

[JonPKibble]

The SAT black-market is just one more reason that a college education isn't worth nearly what it used to. Back in the day you had to EARN YOUR WAY IN, believe it or not.

[AnyAce]

I think that taking someone else's SATs is wrong, but am not posting to change the OPs mind.

As to the point about not being able to make it in college, I agree with OP that that is just false. If you can get in, you can pass (an unfortunate sad truth, IMHO).

Harvard's average GPA is a 3.41 (better than a B+) as of a couple years ago and 90%(!) of students graduated with honors (it is now capped at 60%, which is still ridiculous IMHO).

See: Grade Inflation (http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2005/01/18/gpas_get_a_76_boost_.php)

"Harvard University was criticized in 2001, when the Boston Globe reported that more than 90 percent of Harvard’s students graduate with honors.

Rojstaczer reported that Harvard’s 1999 average GPA was 3.42. As a result of the widespread criticism, Harvard attempted to deflate its high grades by limiting to 60 percent the percentage of students graduating with honors. Data from 2002-2003 shows these efforts proved ineffective; 47.8 percent of the grades received still fell in the “A” range and the mean GPA remained steady at 3.41."

I went to Princeton for grad school and met plenty of self-important undergraduate assclowns who didnt know much, so I think something similar is going there. (There were of course plenty of bright students as well).

My 2c.

AA

[RacersEdge]

You are a POS if you do this.

Ever think of the person whose acceptance letter gets turned into a reject because of your behavior?

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
and if any professional poker players want to debate the ethics of this, i would think about the people you win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they have analogy sections on the test, you will suck at it.

[chisness]

good thing they took that out!

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
I went to Princeton for grad school and met plenty of self-important undergraduate assclowns who didnt know much, so I think something similar is going there. (There were of course plenty of bright students as well).

[/ QUOTE ]

You should see the outrage here over our new grade deflation policy - max 35% A's in classes, 55% in independant work (by department). all the overachieving asshats with no actual intellience act like its going to ruin their lives.

[lacticacid]

[ QUOTE ]
questions for you:

1. How much would you charge for this? Assume the person paying is wealthy.

2. Any other advice? I can't think of any specific questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

I did it for someone in High School, about 10 years ago. I scored better on there test - well I put together my best total test. Tied the highest math and verbal that I had scored for myself.

The way I looked at it the kid was only hurting himself. He was going to flunk out of college anyway. Even with the 1440 he still didn't get in a great school.

His ID looked 95% like me. It was enough for the people giving the test. I got $500 for it. $200 for taking the test, and the bonuses were $50 for over 600, 650, and 700 for each section.

I'd do it again - I like standardized tests.

[InchoateHand]

[ QUOTE ]

You are a POS if you do this.

Ever think of the person whose acceptance letter gets turned into a reject because of your behavior?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, because that is how it works. Good insight man, good looking out. I can tell you know a lot about higher education in America.

[gumpzilla]

I think this is pretty true. At prestigious undergraduate institutions, getting in really is most of the battle. Failing students seems likely to reduce the all-important 4-year graduation rates, lowering a valuable U.S. News and World Report metric; students with mediocre GPA's will impact job placement numbers poorly. The college's brand power must be protected, thus grade inflation. As an undergraduate, my advisor once told me that he needed to submit paperwork to some central organization if he wanted to give a student a grade worse than C-, which was the minimum passing grade. While this isn't the real issue, so much - out and out failure is less the problem than the disappearance of C's, when it comes to grade inflation - I think the disincentive to fail students is representative of a lot of those issues.

[RacersEdge]

Yes, colleges don't have unlimited space - so thats how it works. It's the same argumnet as racial quotas - someone gets in, someone else gets bumped. If anything, this is even worse.

[beset7]

Haven't most regions implemented fingerprinting at the SATs? I know the GMAT, MCAT and LSAT all require fingerprints from all participants. Higher stakes obviously but still I'd make sure you checked out the procedures before you strike a bargain with the purchaser.

[runner4life7]

that one person taht gets bumped probably shouldnt have gotten in anyways. Also they dont try and get 6235 students and not take 6236 if one is qualified

[ QUOTE ]
If this isn't illegal I would do it for 50-70 cents a point. If it is illegal but say the punishment is like citation or possession slap on the wrist I'd do it for 1.0-1.4 a point. If it was more illegal than this I don't think I'd do it at all unless it was so high I would go directly to jail for that much. I think I could easily get low 1400's with no refreshing and low 1500 with moderate retraining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its on a 2400 scale now, so they wouldn't be paying for much. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You are a POS if you do this.

Ever think of the person whose acceptance letter gets turned into a reject because of your behavior?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, because that is how it works. Good insight man, good looking out. I can tell you know a lot about higher education in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif




im requesting that this thread be deleted, i wanted to talk about this with people but shouldnt have been public. if anyone wants to have a serious discusison about this PM me.

[JonPKibble]

On a related note, how much is a good price to ask for "offing" someone?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
On a related note, how much is a good price to ask for "offing" someone?

[/ QUOTE ]

that is something i would not do for money