Poker Tracker banned?

[Cardzy]

Ok, so I haven't played in over 8 months and now I am getting back into the game. When I played I used pokertracker and playerview to keep a database of my and my opponents play and display them while playing.

I made a small deposit on pokerstars and happened to read there rules over for changes. In there rules it states no database software like poker tracker is allowed and they can search for it as they would search for bots.

Are internet sites really banning poker tracker? Anyone heard or had problems with using the software for any sites? I'd like to know before starting to use them again and all of a sudden get banned/lose money for it.

[DDBeast]

It explicitly says Poker Tracker and Poker Ace is fine. Poker Edge is not.

[Cardzy]

[ QUOTE ]
It explicitly says Poker Tracker and Poker Ace is fine. Poker Edge is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I didn't see that stated anywhere.

[somapopper]

Lee Jones was on here commenting about poker tracker compatability the other day, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[PokerAce]

http://www.pokerstars.com/prohibited_programs.html

[Swedebubba]

Q. Can you give me a list of acceptable programs?

A. This is a list of programs that we are aware of and permit:
GameTime+
Holdem Inspector
PokerAce Heads Up
PokerOffice
PokerTracker
PokerWeapon
Texas Calculatem

[Cardzy]

Awesome, thanks for the info guys.

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokerstars.com/prohibited_programs.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Now for the $100 question. How are they going to know?

They're own FAQ seems to be contradictory. In one statement, they say you can use anything that sits passively on your machine and uses data from your play.

Then a few statements later, they specifically prohibit certain apps.

Sounds very subjective and open to case-by-case interpretation.

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokerstars.com/prohibited_programs.html

[/ QUOTE ]

The real meat is in the Terms of Service. Unfortunately, these are ambiguous at best (and IMHO, purposely ambiguous to give them maximum range of legal enforcement).

Quoting from ToS 3.4:
"PokerStars defines an "Unfair Advantage" as a User accessing or compiling information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play."

If this clause were interpreted literally, then one could conceiveably use a "legal" program like PT for an "illegal" purpose (e.g., clocking another game that you aren't playing in).

If that information were to be used at a later point in time for some advantage, then who is going to know? How could something like that ever be fairly and reasonably enforced?

IOW, in the FAQ, they explicitly define "legal" and "illegal" software apps. However, in the ToS, it is only implied but not explicitly stated that you could be subject to punishment if you use "legal" software for "illegal" purposes.

While I personally wouldn't cheat or collude due to personal ethics, I would want to use everything available at my disposal for information gathering and analysis.

This is the modern age. Everything is done quicker and more efficiently. In a B&M ring game, I get 30 hands per hour. Online I get 60-75. In B&M, I can gather information from my surroundings and take notes for later use. Online, I take electronic notes for later use.

Personally, I don't see the ethical conflict. In a B&M, most players will not take notes while they are in the can on a break. I wll and do. So they probably lose a bit of an edge over time. Online I take electronic notes. Anyone that doesn't is probably losing a bit of an edge over time.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
It explicitly says Poker Tracker and Poker Ace is fine. Poker Edge is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is pokerace? what does it do?

link to their site since pokerace.com is a spam site?

[tigerite]

That's because it's www.pokeracesoftware.com (http://www.pokeracesoftware.com)