(22) Good spot for a stop and go? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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golfcchs

10-30-2005, 10:15 PM

Last hand guys, it’s just that my last session brought up allot of situations that I am not really sure on. I really appreciate all the help, thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t670)
MP (t1430)
Button (t2735)
SB (t2400)
Hero (t765)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, Button raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t100.

Flop: (t450) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Button calls t565.

Turn: (t1015) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)

River: (t1015) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: t1015

BB default raise screams a steal to me. I put him on any PP, any ace, any brodway, and mid connectors. Do you think this is a good spot for a stop'n go? I dont think he well lay down to a reraise.

Simplistic

10-30-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Last hand guys, it’s just that my last session brought up allot of situations that I am not really sure on. I really appreciate all the help, thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t670)
MP (t1430)
Button (t2735)
SB (t2400)
Hero (t765)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, Button raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t100.

Flop: (t450) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Button calls t565.

Turn: (t1015) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)

River: (t1015) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: t1015

BB default raise screams a steal to me. I put him on any PP, any ace, any brodway, and mid connectors. Do you think this is a good spot for a stop'n go? I dont think he well lay down to a reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]
if it screams steal then push pre-flop

golfcchs

10-30-2005, 10:18 PM

But I am sure he will call with almost any hand. For example I dont think he will fold 87s to a push pre flop.

Simplistic

10-30-2005, 10:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But I am sure he will call with almost any hand. For example I dont think he will fold 87s to a push pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]which means you're a favourite.

mlagoo

10-30-2005, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I am sure he will call with almost any hand. For example I dont think he will fold 87s to a push pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]which means you're a favourite.

[/ QUOTE ]

youre kinda totally missing the point....

golfcchs

10-30-2005, 10:38 PM

But he will still call with an ace and better kings.

Simplistic

10-30-2005, 10:42 PM

SonnyJay

10-30-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I am sure he will call with almost any hand. For example I dont think he will fold 87s to a push pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]which means you're a favourite.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Obviously you're not just running into 87s, you'll also run into hands that are much better than this. Even against the 87s, you're only 52% (if they're suited in a different suit from your K and 5).

2. Winning his 200 chips without a showdown is much better than going all in as a 52% favorite, even though "you are a favorite." We're looking for the best way to do this.

I'm personally not very proficient at the stop-and-go and don't use it very much, but I see nothing wrong with using it here. Experts' opinions?

-SonnyJay

Simplistic

10-30-2005, 10:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I am sure he will call with almost any hand. For example I dont think he will fold 87s to a push pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]which means you're a favourite.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Obviously you're not just running into 87s, you'll also run into hands that are much better than this. Even against the 87s, you're only 52% (if they're suited in a different suit from your K and 5).

2. Winning his 200 chips without a showdown is much better than going all in as a 52% favorite, even though "you are a favorite." We're looking for the best way to do this.

I'm personally not very proficient at the stop-and-go and don't use it very much, but I see nothing wrong with using it here. Experts' opinions?

-SonnyJay

[/ QUOTE ]i'm not saying a stop and go is wrong, but
when you're throwing in the rest of your stack on a stop n go, you're essentially freerolling him to stack you when he hits, yet he folds if he's behind. i'm not sure if this is the best situation for it.

SonnyJay

10-30-2005, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you're essentially freerolling him to stack you when he hits, yet he folds if he's behind. i'm not sure if this is the best situation for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this concept is true of any stop-and-go. The idea is that he'll fold when he misses, plus any bonuses of him folding when he hits on an ugly flop (he has T9 on a 9KA board...will he call?) Of course, you also account for the times when he "sniffs out the stop-and go" and calls with AK on the ragged flop. I've got midterms tomorrow and don't really feel like doing the math, but I think the idea is that against a typical opponent this is better than taking your likely 55-45 at best situation as a preflop all in. This seems like one of those situations.

-SonnyJay

mlagoo

10-30-2005, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying a stop and go is wrong, but
when you're throwing in the rest of your stack on a stop n go, you're essentially freerolling him to stack you when he hits, yet he folds if he's behind. i'm not sure if this is the best situation for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

if this is the case, then a stop n go is never right.

golfcchs

10-30-2005, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying a stop and go is wrong, but
when you're throwing in the rest of your stack on a stop n go, you're essentially freerolling him to stack you when he hits, yet he folds if he's behind. i'm not sure if this is the best situation for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever use the stop and go? Also would you fold or push?

Simplistic

10-30-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying a stop and go is wrong, but
when you're throwing in the rest of your stack on a stop n go, you're essentially freerolling him to stack you when he hits, yet he folds if he's behind. i'm not sure if this is the best situation for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever use the stop and go? Also would you fold or push?

[/ QUOTE ]
honestly I hate to stop and go. it's very rare that i'll do it unless i've basically committed enough chips by pre-flop raising that i'm better off seeing 5 cards.

there are some players who use it very well but it has it's uses for it. the flop that came down is conducive to a stop and go. I probably would have pushed preflop.

golfcchs

10-30-2005, 11:28 PM

I dont think by pushing I am getting my opponent to put chips in with a dog.

If he was raising
22+,A2s+,K8s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T7s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,65s,A2 o+,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T7o+,97o+,86o+,75o+,65o, which is about top 45% and calling my push with all of this hands I am a 43.6% dog.